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This season's greatest individual achievement

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Re: This season's greatest individual achievement

Postby Lofunzo » Fri Sep 24, 2004 1:17 pm

Bloody Nipples wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:
RayD wrote:Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying Ichiro's pursuit of the hits record. But what he's doing this year doesn't begin to compare to what Barry Bonds is doing.

Ted Williams said that baseball is the only human endeavor where a man can succeed three out of ten times and be considered a good performer. Well, this year Bonds has been successful twice that often.

The only .600 OBP in baseball history. Discuss!


Bonds season is absolutely amazing but what Williams meant was AVG and not OBP. I don't think that Williams was up on Moneyball when he made that statement. :-b


The standard then would be 4 out of 10 plate appearences, which Bonds is destroying also. :-D

However, I think that the most important accomplishment this season has been Beltran's 40-40 quest, which he will definitely achieve. Though I think Bonds is incredible and possibly the best hitter of all time, I just have gotten used to him putting up these great numbers, so I come to expect it now. Therefore I think 40-40 is more exciting.


I am fully aware of Bonds' awesome season. I was just pointing out that you can't use AVG in 1 example and OBP in another in the same math equation. :-?
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Postby LCBOY » Fri Sep 24, 2004 3:02 pm

How is walking Bonds all the time a good thing for the opposing team? If you pitch to Bonds he will makes outs. If you walk him he won't make any outs. It's as simple as that. Bonds has 112 IBB (as of 9/23). What would have happened if teams pitched to him in those 112 PAs? Well, let's look at his other PAs. Bonds has 580 PAs.

580-112=468 PAs

In those 468 PAs Bonds has 113 BBs (whick would be #3 in the NL!)and 131 hits.

113+131=244
468-244=224 outs

224/468=47.9% of PAs are outs

112 x 47.9% =53.6 ~54 outs

So Bonds would have made approximately 54 outs. That's two full games of outs. So, again how is walking Bonds helping the opposing team?
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Postby Madison » Fri Sep 24, 2004 3:22 pm

LCBOY wrote:How is walking Bonds all the time a good thing for the opposing team? If you pitch to Bonds he will makes outs. If you walk him he won't make any outs. It's as simple as that. Bonds has 112 IBB (as of 9/23). What would have happened if teams pitched to him in those 112 PAs? Well, let's look at his other PAs. Bonds has 580 PAs.

580-112=468 PAs

In those 468 PAs Bonds has 113 BBs (whick would be #3 in the NL!)and 131 hits.

113+131=244
468-244=224 outs

224/468=47.9% of PAs are outs

112 x 47.9% =53.6 ~54 outs

So Bonds would have made approximately 54 outs. That's two full games of outs. So, again how is walking Bonds helping the opposing team?


While those stats are nice, what you are missing is that the other team is taking Barry out of play. That's the whole point in walking him. He cannot do any damage standing on first.

Here's an easy question that might get the point across:

What would you rather do?

A. Pitch to Barry with the bases empty

or

B. Pitch to Snow (or any other Giant) with a runner on 1st?

You walk Barry and pitch to Snow. Why? Because Snow cannot do the damage that Barry can do. Give Snow a runner at first every time and he still cannot do the damage Barry can do with the bases empty.

This is precisely why walking Barry works and why teams continue to do it. It also shows his walks to not be anywhere near as valuable as some think. So Barry doesn't make an out. Big deal. Who cares? The rest of the team has to drive him in and that's not something they can do on a regular basis, so they fail and the strategy works for the other team.

With all that said, please note that I did state above that Barry should win the MVP this year. ;-)
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Postby LBJackal » Fri Sep 24, 2004 3:34 pm

Well you have to take into account the situations that Bonds is walked. A lot of the time it's with men on base, or there are 2 outs. And whose hitting behind him? Edgardo Alfonzo? With 2 outs, I'd take my chances against Alfonzo and walk Bonds. Teams may miss out on 54 outs over the course of the season, but how many runs did they save by giving up those outs? Probably a lot. And most of the time it's beneficial. Hell, he was intentionally walked once with the bases loaded and that turned out to be the right decision.
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Postby great gretzky » Fri Sep 24, 2004 3:51 pm

this season's greatest accomplishment is me getting bonds for maddux and vernon wells. or maybe it was peddling sabathia and gathright to a steals starved team for zambrano.

BOO YA.
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Postby DK » Fri Sep 24, 2004 4:39 pm

Bonds is an achievement unto himself. I never say never, but it will be difficult to imagine a better player than him so late in their career ever again.
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Postby Madison » Fri Sep 24, 2004 4:53 pm

LBJackal wrote:Well you have to take into account the situations that Bonds is walked. A lot of the time it's with men on base, or there are 2 outs. And whose hitting behind him? Edgardo Alfonzo? With 2 outs, I'd take my chances against Alfonzo and walk Bonds. Teams may miss out on 54 outs over the course of the season, but how many runs did they save by giving up those outs? Probably a lot. And most of the time it's beneficial. Hell, he was intentionally walked once with the bases loaded and that turned out to be the right decision.


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Postby Tavish » Fri Sep 24, 2004 6:46 pm

What would you rather do?

A. Pitch to Barry with the bases empty

or

B. Pitch to Snow (or any other Giant) with a runner on 1st?


Pitch to Bonds with the bases empty.

Bonds with the bases empty

72/206 .350 AVE 23 RBI

Snow with a man on 1B

21/61 .344 AVE 9 RBI

Bonds is generating about 1 less out. Bonds drives in a run 11% of the time when he bats with the bases empty. Snow drives in a run 15% of the time with a man on first. There are certainly situations where walking Barry is the right move, but it is not nearly as often as what some managers tend to do. The bases empty is certainly not a time I would consider giving Bonds an IBB.
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Postby JTWood » Fri Sep 24, 2004 7:17 pm

This season's greatest achievement? This:

3 G, 4 IP, 2 H, 1 BB, 5 K, 2 HLD, 0 Wild Pitches

Who am I talking about?

Rick Ankiel

If he pitches in the post season like he has so far, he should be comback player of the year hands down.
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Postby Lofunzo » Fri Sep 24, 2004 7:19 pm

JTWood wrote:This season's greatest achievement? This:

3 G, 4 IP, 2 H, 1 BB, 5 K, 2 HLD, 0 Wild Pitches

Who am I talking about?

Rick Ankiel

If he pitches in the post season like he has so far, he should be comback player of the year hands down.


It is a great accomplishment but don't you need more than 3 games?? 8-o
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