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Is Bonds pretty much a lock to break Aaron's record?

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Postby LBJackal » Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:09 pm

thetongueofire wrote:
Tavish wrote:A quick sidenote about Ruth's career Win Shares. He earned over 100 of them as a pitcher. I don't think anyone will contend Bonds was a better pitcher than Ruth. ;-)


lol good point. but thats what ive been saying overall as of today Ruth is the slightly better hitter but if you were to take Bonds last four years, they're arguably best four (consecutive) years anyone's ever had. ;-D


2001, 2002, and 2004 are probably the 4 best season taht anyone has ever had. The fact that the same player accomplished that, within a span of 4 seasons, is amazing. But if he had done that over his whole career he'd be better than Babe, but he didn't - he did it over 4 years.
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Postby thetongueofire » Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:18 pm

LBJackal wrote:
thetongueofire wrote:
Tavish wrote:A quick sidenote about Ruth's career Win Shares. He earned over 100 of them as a pitcher. I don't think anyone will contend Bonds was a better pitcher than Ruth. ;-)


lol good point. but thats what ive been saying overall as of today Ruth is the slightly better hitter but if you were to take Bonds last four years, they're arguably best four (consecutive) years anyone's ever had. ;-D


2001, 2002, and 2004 are probably the 4 best season taht anyone has ever had. The fact that the same player accomplished that, within a span of 4 seasons, is amazing. But if he had done that over his whole career he'd be better than Babe, but he didn't - he did it over 4 years.


i agree. so far he hasnt. but he still has time left and hes faced MUCH tougher competition than Ruth ever had to. what if he can put up three more seasons on roughly the same level.... that'd sure make it real interesting and put him over Ruth in my eyes.

grrr.. this isnt going anywhere. i'm saying the same things i've said before. everybody else too. just over and over... !+)
[size=10]Manny Ramirez....$20 million
Pedro Martinez....$17.5 million
Curt Schilling...$12 million (and a $2 million bonus)
Never hearing a Yankee fan chant 1918 again...priceless. [/size]
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Postby Tavish » Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:26 pm

LBJackal wrote:2001, 2002, and 2004 are probably the 4 best season taht anyone has ever had. The fact that the same player accomplished that, within a span of 4 seasons, is amazing. But if he had done that over his whole career he'd be better than Babe, but he didn't - he did it over 4 years.


Glad to hear that you agree. ;-D
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Postby LBJackal » Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:35 pm

thetongueofire wrote:grrr.. this isnt going anywhere. i'm saying the same things i've said before. everybody else too. just over and over... !+)


That's pretty much how it goes with Bonds topics :-D

People either like/dislike him, like/dislike the walks, like/dislike this, like/dislike that. Nothing really changes. Except everybody agrees Bonds is clearly the best player in the game :-)

I hope.......... :-o
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Postby Lofunzo » Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:41 pm

Tavish wrote:A quick sidenote about Ruth's career Win Shares. He earned over 100 of them as a pitcher. I don't think anyone will contend Bonds was a better pitcher than Ruth. ;-)


Good point and that is why I made sure to do a top 3, of which Ruth has 0.2 WS for pitching. :-)
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Postby thetongueofire » Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:45 pm

yep but i think that Tavish was referring to the part about career WS... not sure tho.
[size=10]Manny Ramirez....$20 million
Pedro Martinez....$17.5 million
Curt Schilling...$12 million (and a $2 million bonus)
Never hearing a Yankee fan chant 1918 again...priceless. [/size]
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Postby Lofunzo » Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:47 pm

I just found this interesting tidbit about WS per 648 PA:


    Player WS per 648 PA
    Babe Ruth 39.92
    Mickey Mantle 36.95
    Ted Williams 36.74
    Honus Wagner 36.16
    Ty Cobb 35.79
    Barry Bonds 34.56
    Rogers Hornsby 34.33
    Tris Speaker 34.05
    Joe Jackson 33.48
    Willie Mays 33.30
    Lou Gehrig 32.80
    Joe DiMaggio 32.69
    Mike Piazza 31.82
    Benny Kauff 31.82
    Eddie Collins 30.90
    Stan Musial 30.79
    Nap Lajoie 30.73
    Charlie Keller 30.68
    Dick Allen 30.30
    Mel Ott 30.18
Last edited by Lofunzo on Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:02 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby Tavish » Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:51 pm

Lofunzo wrote:I just found this interesting tidbit about WS per 648 PA:

Hold on.......


If its the same article I'm thinking of, its plain to see that the greatest offensive player ever is Ty Cobb. :-D
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Postby thetongueofire » Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:59 pm

lol what is this? how come i'm not in on this secret article ? :-D
[size=10]Manny Ramirez....$20 million
Pedro Martinez....$17.5 million
Curt Schilling...$12 million (and a $2 million bonus)
Never hearing a Yankee fan chant 1918 again...priceless. [/size]
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Postby Tavish » Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:16 pm

Ack, I was thinking of the Win Shares above replacement level breakdown that Ty Cobb ended up winning.

Again, I am only saying that Bonds at his peak is as dominating (if not more so) as Ruth at his peak.

Ruth's top 3 seasons (159 Win Shares, 2008 PA) 51.3 WS/648 PA
Bond's top 3 seasons (150 Win Shares, 1852 PA) 52.4 WS/648 PA

If you want to talk career value then there is no doubt in my mind Ruth was the overall most dominate. But at their peak Bonds is as good if not better. Bonds would probably need at least 3 more years of his current prowess to come close to catching Ruth career wise.
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