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Any doubt on AL Cy Young?

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Postby LBJackal » Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:09 pm

Baseballer02 wrote:Santana still managed to better Schilling in WHIP, BAA, and K's for what is considered by most to be the first half of the season


I know you think Santana should win, but WHIP, BAA, and K's are irrelevent in CY voting. Not that it changes anything as for who shoudl win, but it's wrong reasoning. He should win because he's allowed far fewer runs, and had more quality starts. If he had 120 K's and had a BAA of .250 it woudln't make any difference as long as his ER distribution remained the same.
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Postby Fpower » Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:37 pm

Why wouldn't K's matter in Cy Young voting?

I go with Johan all the way.
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Postby Baseballer02 » Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:42 pm

LBJackal wrote:
Baseballer02 wrote:Santana still managed to better Schilling in WHIP, BAA, and K's for what is considered by most to be the first half of the season


I know you think Santana should win, but WHIP, BAA, and K's are irrelevent in CY voting. Not that it changes anything as for who shoudl win, but it's wrong reasoning. He should win because he's allowed far fewer runs, and had more quality starts. If he had 120 K's and had a BAA of .250 it woudln't make any difference as long as his ER distribution remained the same.


It seems to me that WHIP, BAA, and K's shows how dominating a pitcher is over hitters. And the last I checked the best pitchers are the ones who are most dominating. Santana has allowed more home runs than Schilling, but because he's allowing fewer baserunners(WHIP and BAA), he's not giving up as many earned runs. Wins, yes, are a little overrated when defining a pitcher. But WHIP, BAA, and K's are damn good at measuring the skill of our best pitchers.
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Postby SaintsOfTheDiamond » Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:43 pm

Fpower wrote:Why wouldn't K's matter in Cy Young voting?

I go with Johan all the way.


I don't know about anyone else, but IMO K's are overrated since you don't have to be exclusively a strikeout artist to be an effective pitcher.
Last edited by SaintsOfTheDiamond on Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Baseballer02 » Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:45 pm

SaintsOfTheDiamond wrote:
Fpower wrote:Why wouldn't K's matter in Cy Young voting?

I go with Johan all the way.


I don't know about anyone else, but IMO K's are WAY overrated since you don't have to be a strikeout artist to be an effective pitcher.


K's can greatly help out a pitcher. Runner on 3rd, 1 out, would you want a groundball or a strikeout? Being a great strikeout pitcher really helps in those types of situations.
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Postby bleach168 » Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:45 pm

LBJackal wrote:Wins should be irrelevant


Maybe they should be irrelevant, but they are not. They are a major factor in the decision for Cy Young.
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Postby LBJackal » Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:46 pm

K's don't matter because an out is an out - however you get it, it still counts the same. Most good pitchers K a lot of batters, but some don't, ie: Brad Radke. Is he any worse because he doesn't K as many batters? No. He has the same ERA as Pedro, and more quality starts. So why should anybody consider Pedro better? As long as you get the job done, that's what counts. K's and WHIP are nice to use for fantasy, but when judging how good a pitcher is, they're irrelevent. For future success, sure they can play a role. But on judging how well a starting pitcher has already been, ER and IP are really the only important stats.
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Postby LBJackal » Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:48 pm

bleach168 wrote:
LBJackal wrote:Wins should be irrelevant


Maybe they should be irrelevant, but they are not. They are a major factor in the decision for Cy Young.


Exactly........ they shouldn't matter, just like K's, but the voters don't neccesarily vote for who SHOULD win, they vote for who they WANT to win. Sometimes hometown pitchers sway voters, pitchers with charisma can too, same with pitchers who have been good over a longer period of time, pitchers who are more pwoerful, etc. But in real baseball, allowing ER is all that matters.
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Postby SaintsOfTheDiamond » Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:50 pm

Baseballer02 wrote:
SaintsOfTheDiamond wrote:
Fpower wrote:Why wouldn't K's matter in Cy Young voting?

I go with Johan all the way.


I don't know about anyone else, but IMO K's are WAY overrated since you don't have to be a strikeout artist to be an effective pitcher.


K's can greatly help out a pitcher. Runner on 3rd, 1 out, would you want a groundball or a strikeout? Being a great strikeout pitcher really helps in those types of situations.


After reading my post I thought it was a little strong, so I edited it...hehe :D I guess what I was trying to say was that high K totals don't necessarily translate into a great pitcher unless you have the total package (control, knowing how to pitch etc). Not sure if that makes sense, but I think you have to be careful and look at K to BB ratios and stuff like that to determine greatness and/or dominance.
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Postby Fpower » Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:52 pm

Another reason that Ks are good is because the ball is never put into play. Whenever the ball's put into play, even if it was a good pitch, the play become's dependent on the defense's ability (or lackthereof) to complete the play. Almost no chance for errors on strikeouts.
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