Any doubt on AL Cy Young? - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2015 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Any doubt on AL Cy Young?

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Postby Baseballer02 » Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:20 pm

In Santana's 6 losses there was only one game where the run margin between the Twins and their opposing team was greater than 3, so I'd say Santana did damn well at keeping the Twins in their games.

Schilling, on the other hand, had four games out of his 6 losses of which the run margin between the Sox and their opposing team was greater than four runs. Are you still sure Schilling has done a better job at keeping the Sox in the game?
Baseballer02
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
Sweet 16 Survivor
Posts: 2006
Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Pitching from the left side.

Postby LBJackal » Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:21 pm

Schmidt? He wasn't good until May, and he stopped being great at the end of August. That's only May, June, July, and half of August that he was actually good. 3 and a half months. Not that I think that matters, since QS and ERA are all that should really matter, and overall RJ has been much better in both categories. 3 more QS, and his ERA is about 40 points lower. Don't see much of a way Schmidt has been better than RJ. Wins should be irrelevant since it's an award based on skill (best pitcher in the national league is the definition). Wins are team dependant and are not an indication of being the best. Since QS and ERA are the only logical basis for comparison (possibly others, but please don't mention WHIP and K's, they are meaningless) then how could RJ not be the most deserving candidate since he leads the NL in both categories? And as a sidenote, Pavano is more deserving of the NL CY than Schmidt. Same QS and a lower ERA....... I see no reason why anybody would have rather had Schmidt this season :-?

As for the AL, it's the same story with Santana - best ERA, most QS's. Schilling might not even deserve to get 2nd place since Pedro is almost the same in ERA and better in QS.

I don't see any reason, up until now, that anybody other than Santana or RJ deserve their CY awards. Kinda boring since there isn't much to logically debate otherwise, but there's still time for somebody to catch up. It's not likely, but if RJ tanks and Sheets, Pavano, Zambrano or Clemens throw a couple shutouts, it would narrow the gap a bit. Santana is virtually uncatchable at this point though.
Image

"Jack, will you call me, if you're able?"

"I've got your phone number written, in the back of my Bible."
LBJackal
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Pick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 9196
Joined: 1 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The Hotel Yorba

Postby Transmogrifier » Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:21 pm

I'd actually not go by wins. Bah, I should have looked it up. Santana is leading in quality starts, too. Perhaps I should have researched more before opening my mouth. It's harder to argue for anyone but Santana.
I'm back. Sorta.

Do not boo Johnny.
Transmogrifier
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeSweet 16 Survivor
Posts: 7181
Joined: 17 Apr 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: No taxation without Representation!

Postby WhiteHot » Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:23 pm

Transmogrifier wrote:Perhaps you're right. Perhaps my bias is showing. But I don't understand giving it to someone who truly stunk for two months--era of 5+--and he can be the best pitcher of the year. Clearly he's the best pitcher of the second half. Schilling has kept his team in nearly every game he has pitched. Santana has not.


You're making it sound like Schilling never had a bad game.

Also, you say that Santana is inconsistent? Santana was consistently medicore to begin the season (you are only looking at ERA...check out his WHIP, BAA, and Ks). Now, Santana has been consistently dominant.

Curt can be dominant, but I also see a few 10+ hit, 6+ER debacles on his game log too. To me, thats more inconsistent than Santana.

To me, there is no doubt that Santana is the AL CY. He leads in ERA, WHIP, K, K/9, K/BB, BAA, and only has one less win on his resume. And some of these categories aren't even close (BAA is like .193 versus .240, ERA is 2.76 versus 3.35, WHIP is 0.92 versus 1.09).
WhiteHot
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1622
Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Argentina

Postby Baseballer02 » Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:23 pm

Transmogrifier wrote:I'd actually not go by wins. Bah, I should have looked it up. Santana is leading in quality starts, too. Perhaps I should have researched more before opening my mouth. It's harder to argue for anyone but Santana.


Glad to see you've joined the club. Welcome. ;-D
Baseballer02
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
Sweet 16 Survivor
Posts: 2006
Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Pitching from the left side.

Postby Transmogrifier » Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:25 pm

I'll have to do more research and get back to you. Those first two months didn't effect Santana's era it seems that much because he was pulled early.

Anyway, I still think there is a strong case for Schilling. I'm just not sure I buy it at this time. I hope I have time where I can dig into this more.
I'm back. Sorta.

Do not boo Johnny.
Transmogrifier
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeSweet 16 Survivor
Posts: 7181
Joined: 17 Apr 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: No taxation without Representation!

Postby Baseballer02 » Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:34 pm

You keep mentioning the first two months, well I'm gonna broaden it just a bit and put up the stats for before the All-Star Break.

Santana:
123.2 IP
7 Wins
6 Losses
3.78 ERA
1.07 WHIP
.221 BAA
136 K's

Schilling:
125.1 IP
11 Wins
4 Losses
3.16 ERA
1.16 WHIP
.256 BAA
118 K's

So even with his early struggles, Santana still managed to better Schilling in WHIP, BAA, and K's for what is considered by most to be the first half of the season, and it also shows he was pitching nearly just as many innings.
Baseballer02
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
Sweet 16 Survivor
Posts: 2006
Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Pitching from the left side.

Postby Transmogrifier » Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:35 pm

WhiteHot wrote:
Transmogrifier wrote:Perhaps you're right. Perhaps my bias is showing. But I don't understand giving it to someone who truly stunk for two months--era of 5+--and he can be the best pitcher of the year. Clearly he's the best pitcher of the second half. Schilling has kept his team in nearly every game he has pitched. Santana has not.


You're making it sound like Schilling never had a bad game.

Also, you say that Santana is inconsistent? Santana was consistently medicore to begin the season (you are only looking at ERA...check out his WHIP, BAA, and Ks). Now, Santana has been consistently dominant.

Curt can be dominant, but I also see a few 10+ hit, 6+ER debacles on his game log too. To me, thats more inconsistent than Santana.

To me, there is no doubt that Santana is the AL CY. He leads in ERA, WHIP, K, K/9, K/BB, BAA, and only has one less win on his resume. And some of these categories aren't even close (BAA is like .193 versus .240, ERA is 2.76 versus 3.35, WHIP is 0.92 versus 1.09).


I'm not saying that Curt's never had a bad game. But the fact is, for two months Santana pitched quite poorly. I agree, most of the stats are in favor of Santana, and I may very well be. But I hardly think it's a slam dunk.
I'm back. Sorta.

Do not boo Johnny.
Transmogrifier
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeSweet 16 Survivor
Posts: 7181
Joined: 17 Apr 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: No taxation without Representation!

Postby Baseballer02 » Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:37 pm

Transmogrifier wrote:
WhiteHot wrote:
Transmogrifier wrote:Perhaps you're right. Perhaps my bias is showing. But I don't understand giving it to someone who truly stunk for two months--era of 5+--and he can be the best pitcher of the year. Clearly he's the best pitcher of the second half. Schilling has kept his team in nearly every game he has pitched. Santana has not.


You're making it sound like Schilling never had a bad game.

Also, you say that Santana is inconsistent? Santana was consistently medicore to begin the season (you are only looking at ERA...check out his WHIP, BAA, and Ks). Now, Santana has been consistently dominant.

Curt can be dominant, but I also see a few 10+ hit, 6+ER debacles on his game log too. To me, thats more inconsistent than Santana.

To me, there is no doubt that Santana is the AL CY. He leads in ERA, WHIP, K, K/9, K/BB, BAA, and only has one less win on his resume. And some of these categories aren't even close (BAA is like .193 versus .240, ERA is 2.76 versus 3.35, WHIP is 0.92 versus 1.09).


I'm not saying that Curt's never had a bad game. But the fact is, for two months Santana pitched quite poorly. I agree, most of the stats are in favor of Santana, and I may very well be. But I hardly think it's a slam dunk.


You said yourself you have some bias, so at this point I think it's to where you're just looking for any argument you can come up with, rather than just facing the straight facts.

It's all good though, I love some good debating. ;-D
Baseballer02
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
Sweet 16 Survivor
Posts: 2006
Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Pitching from the left side.

Postby LBJackal » Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:07 pm

Transmogrifier wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote:
Transmogrifier wrote:So is consistency worth anything? Santana truly sucked for April and May. I'm not discounting him as a pitcher, I just don't think he deserves it over Schilling, who has been excellent all year.
Santana has higher highs and lower lows but he has still been the best pitcher this season. Better ERA and WHIP than Schilling for the whole year, not just the last 4 months.


Perhaps you're right. Perhaps my bias is showing. But I don't understand giving it to someone who truly stunk for two months--era of 5+--and he can be the best pitcher of the year. Clearly he's the best pitcher of the second half. Schilling has kept his team in nearly every game he has pitched. Santana has not.


So because Santana's bad games were all in a row it makes a difference? Schilling's bad games were spread over the entire season. Schilling actually had more games of giving up 4 or more runs (7) than Santana (6) so the fact that they were spread out more doesn't really make him better. Schilling might not even be 2nd or 3rd best, I'd probably take Radke and Pedro over him. But since you've got the home-town bias I won't think much of it :-D

But trust me, it's a slam dunk. Not even close. ;-)
Image

"Jack, will you call me, if you're able?"

"I've got your phone number written, in the back of my Bible."
LBJackal
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Pick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 9196
Joined: 1 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The Hotel Yorba

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Get Ready...
The 2015 MLB season starts in 5:51 hours
(and 90 days)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact