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Postby StlSluggers » Thu Sep 02, 2004 9:44 am

It's so simple. She couldn't win the court case and those lawyers are costing her by the hour. She dropped those charges because "she's so worn out" ( ;-7 ) and now she can focus on the real reason for this whole thing - the civil suit (a.k.a. - money).

And just so you know, I had not made up my mind on his guilt or her intentions until this event yesterday. Now I firmly believe that she is doing this strictly for the money.
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Postby Madison » Thu Sep 02, 2004 11:00 am

KPucks wrote:
Madison wrote:I just heard Kobe's apology for the entire incident. From the sound of it, he's going to end up giving up some big bucks in the civil trial.

No, the apology was a requiired part of the case being dismissed and can't be used against him in the civil trial. Kobe's lawyers basically said that the girl said she wouldn't testify, but Kobe had to apologize or else she wouldn't drop the case, and that Kobe said fine because he wanted the charges dismissed. Wouldn't you apologize for something you don't believe you did if it means not being put on trial and facing life in prison?


Oh, I'm aware that the apology can't be used against him. I caught that part. What I'm getting at is that he wrote it. They didn't write it out and have him sign it. He wrote it. From what he read, he sounds incredibly guilty to me. With that said, I believe he will be giving up some big bucks in the civil trial.

If he did it or not is really irrelevant to me. A couple of things I will say though is that if he didn't do it, he shouldn't have to cover his butt with an apology. He should just let the trial run it's course and prove his innocence. If he felt like he needed to apologize to cover his butt, then his defense must have been awfully weak and with his money, and if in fact he is innocent, his case shouldn't be weak at all.

Everything points to him being guilty in my mind, but you will never hear me refer to him as a rapist since the charges were dropped. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and like I said, I could really care less if he did it or not.
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Postby Baseballer02 » Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:29 pm

Madison wrote:
KPucks wrote:
Madison wrote:I just heard Kobe's apology for the entire incident. From the sound of it, he's going to end up giving up some big bucks in the civil trial.

No, the apology was a requiired part of the case being dismissed and can't be used against him in the civil trial. Kobe's lawyers basically said that the girl said she wouldn't testify, but Kobe had to apologize or else she wouldn't drop the case, and that Kobe said fine because he wanted the charges dismissed. Wouldn't you apologize for something you don't believe you did if it means not being put on trial and facing life in prison?


Oh, I'm aware that the apology can't be used against him. I caught that part. What I'm getting at is that he wrote it. They didn't write it out and have him sign it. He wrote it. From what he read, he sounds incredibly guilty to me. With that said, I believe he will be giving up some big bucks in the civil trial.

If he did it or not is really irrelevant to me. A couple of things I will say though is that if he didn't do it, he shouldn't have to cover his butt with an apology. He should just let the trial run it's course and prove his innocence. If he felt like he needed to apologize to cover his butt, then his defense must have been awfully weak and with his money, and if in fact he is innocent, his case shouldn't be weak at all.

Everything points to him being guilty in my mind, but you will never hear me refer to him as a rapist since the charges were dropped. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and like I said, I could really care less if he did it or not.


I'm sure the accuser had certain specifics for Kobe to base his apology on. It wouldn't make much sense for him to be able to come out and just say "Ummm, sorry." and walk off now would it?

In all actuality, Kobe's defense seemed very strong, IMO. Let me ask you this, would you want to wait through a court trial and have 12 complete strangers determine how the rest of your life would be spent, or just address the accuser and the public with a fake apology in order to get out of hot water?

And as far as the civil suit goes, I don't think Kobe's very worried about it seein as how he plans on representing himself. And the accuser can only get so much cash, which will probably be in an amount that's merely pocket change to Kobe.
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Postby Madison » Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:55 pm

Baseballer02 wrote:I'm sure the accuser had certain specifics for Kobe to base his apology on. It wouldn't make much sense for him to be able to come out and just say "Ummm, sorry." and walk off now would it?

In all actuality, Kobe's defense seemed very strong, IMO. Let me ask you this, would you want to wait through a court trial and have 12 complete strangers determine how the rest of your life would be spent, or just address the accuser and the public with a fake apology in order to get out of hot water?

And as far as the civil suit goes, I don't think Kobe's very worried about it seein as how he plans on representing himself. And the accuser can only get so much cash, which will probably be in an amount that's merely pocket change to Kobe.


I'm sure there were certain things that he had to express, like genuinely feeling sorry, etc. Of course he couldn't just come out and say "Sorry, won't happen again.". The actual way he worded things leads me to belive that he's guilty. I mean:

"I thought it was consentual, but after listening to her I realize that it was not consentual". That's just one bit of the apology that doesn't sound right, yet he wrote it himself.

How to you sleep with someone and think they are saying yes, if they are saying no? Or think that they want to, if they don't? I wasn't there, so I don't know exactly how it went, but is Kobe really that blind? Have you ever had sex with a woman who didn't want to? I doubt it. Odds are that if she changed her mind, or didn't want to in the first place, it didn't happen.

He wrote it and it wasn't forced to say that, so why put it out there? It says "guilty" all over it.

As to the trial, this has been out there how long? Why not go through the process and prove to the world that you are innocent? It's almost over anyway. Saying you are gulity to avoid a trial does not show any innocence to me whatsoever especially if his defense had any strength in the least.

As to the civil trial, a couple of million isn't much to Kobe, and he won't miss it, but it's still a good chunk of change. I'd be highly surprised if she ends up with less than a million when all is said and done. Oh, and what's freedom worth anyway? Make the mistake (we can all agree it was a mistake and I won't say he raped her since it wasn't proven in a court of law), apologize and admit the mistake, and then pay her off with a good chunk of change for most people. I'd say getting away with it is well worth whatever he has to pay in his eyes.

Bottom line is that these whole proceedings do not convince me that he's innocent at all and really puts his innocence in question for me with the way he wrote his apology. I didn't pay much attention to it for awhile and figured he was innocent. It was just a woman trying to get paid. Then he admitted he lied about sleeping with her, and even with that, I didn't figure he raped her, that she was just saying it to get paid. After hearing the apology he wrote, I honestly don't know. I really don't care either, but he certainly does not look innocent to me.
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Postby donut » Thu Sep 02, 2004 8:04 pm

do we know if he wrote it or not? the statement was carefully written where there was no admission of guilt. wouldn't suprise me if the lawyer for the girl (clune) sent the statement to kobe's lawyer and then kobe's lawyer made a couple of changes and then had kobe sign it. c'mon...if you filed charges and you're at the brink of trial you quit b/c it's too tramatizing? but you're willing to go to a civil trail where you'd get less protection in court. ie no rape shield law and they can question her about her drug+alchohal abuse and suicide attempts? never been raped but imo it goes against common sense to sleep with another man hours after you're raped.
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Postby thehat » Thu Sep 02, 2004 8:28 pm

StlSluggers wrote:It's so simple. She couldn't win the court case and those lawyers are costing her by the hour. She dropped those charges because "she's so worn out" ( ;-7 ) and now she can focus on the real reason for this whole thing - the civil suit (a.k.a. - money).

And just so you know, I had not made up my mind on his guilt or her intentions until this event yesterday. Now I firmly believe that she is doing this strictly for the money.


Number one, you have your facts wrong. She didn't drop the charges against Kobe, she never brought the charges against him. He was charged by the legal authorities and only after they determined there was sufficient evidence to proceed with filing those charges. Considering that cases like this are tough to prove even minus a celebrity presence, the only logical conclusion is that there had to have been substantial indications that a crime took place. I cannot see how any clear thinking individual can think otherwise.

Secondly, as is almost always the situation in high profile cases such as this, his attorneys were far more adept and well heeled than the prosecutors. Bryant was treated throughout these proceedings like the celebrity he is.

Third, the court/police either intentionally or unintentionally broke one rule after another in terms of completely failing to protect her right to privacy (interesting that in this case the accuser's name, address and phone number are available to anyone who wants them thanks to "accidental leaks"...on the other hand, I'd like to see you or anyone else tell me where you can find similar info on Bryant). Clearly, there were some officials involved in these proceedings that sold the info for money. Either that, or we're actually dealing with the real life version of several Barney Fifes in positions of authority in this Colorado berg.

Fourth and finally, why would an innocent person ever agree to apologize for something where he has no guilt? Makes no sense, and the wording of the "apology" speaks VOLUMES about what may have taken place here.

As for the girl, she's probably smart to go for the money at this point. And she'll get plenty. And even if this wasn't a full blown rape, since it's plain as day based on the wording of the apology that something abnormal happened here, then she deserves every penny.

Not that it will matter to Kobe. He'll just make another $200 or $300 million as his supporters flock to arenas throughout the land to show how much they love him.
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Postby Precise » Thu Sep 02, 2004 8:30 pm

Madison wrote:
KPucks wrote:
Madison wrote:I just heard Kobe's apology for the entire incident. From the sound of it, he's going to end up giving up some big bucks in the civil trial.

No, the apology was a requiired part of the case being dismissed and can't be used against him in the civil trial. Kobe's lawyers basically said that the girl said she wouldn't testify, but Kobe had to apologize or else she wouldn't drop the case, and that Kobe said fine because he wanted the charges dismissed. Wouldn't you apologize for something you don't believe you did if it means not being put on trial and facing life in prison?


Oh, I'm aware that the apology can't be used against him. I caught that part. What I'm getting at is that he wrote it. They didn't write it out and have him sign it. He wrote it. From what he read, he sounds incredibly guilty to me. With that said, I believe he will be giving up some big bucks in the civil trial.

If he did it or not is really irrelevant to me. A couple of things I will say though is that if he didn't do it, he shouldn't have to cover his butt with an apology. He should just let the trial run it's course and prove his innocence. If he felt like he needed to apologize to cover his butt, then his defense must have been awfully weak and with his money, and if in fact he is innocent, his case shouldn't be weak at all.

Everything points to him being guilty in my mind, but you will never hear me refer to him as a rapist since the charges were dropped. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and like I said, I could really care less if he did it or not.


dont be naive. the statement is political and far from an admission of guilt. so many people have so much invested in kobe, ranging from the lakers to the nba to nike....... thats a lot of weight backing kobe. I dont think the civil trial will even happen. The girl has no leverage what so ever....... but she'll still get her $$$ under the table.
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Postby donut » Thu Sep 02, 2004 8:42 pm

let's say i called the cops and said you threatened the life of our president even though you never said such a thing. the secret service knocks on your door arrests you and you are on the eve of trial, where you're tried for treason b/c of your alleged threats. a conviction carries a life sentence. then the secret service tells you all you have to do is issue an apology without admitting guilt and charges will be dropped, even though the chances of you getting convicted is 10%. what would you do? i know i'd sign that apology!!! rather than risk a 10% chance of me rotting in jail. also your assertion of her not dropping charges is splitting hairs. she is primarily the whole prosecution's case. just b/c someone is charged for a crime does not mean something criminal happened.
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Postby Madison » Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:16 am

thehat wrote:Fourth and finally, why would an innocent person ever agree to apologize for something where he has no guilt? Makes no sense, and the wording of the "apology" speaks VOLUMES about what may have taken place here.

As for the girl, she's probably smart to go for the money at this point. And she'll get plenty. And even if this wasn't a full blown rape, since it's plain as day based on the wording of the apology that something abnormal happened here, then she deserves every penny.


Agreed, and nice to see that I'm not the only one who payed attention to exactly how, and what was said. ;-D
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Yes doctor, there will be a war.
Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
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Postby Yikes » Fri Sep 03, 2004 1:51 am

our Chinese press has been covering this case from time to time...it seems raping a girl in the US is not really a serious crime...
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