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Does This Scoring System Make This a Bad League?

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Does This Scoring System Make This a Bad League?

Postby StlSluggers » Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:44 pm

I joined a new league this year that I liked because of its cool keeper cap system. Before joined, I noticed that pitchers weren't really getting a lot of points, and they were definitely losing a lot of points for every little thing. I made an off-handed comment about it at the beginning of the season, but I thought it best to reserve judgment about it until after the season was finished.

Well, my season was finished after about the 5th week (I bought a stinker of a team that won't be competitive until next year at best). So I spent some time the other day accumulating some stats I deemed relevant, and this is what I got:

The average hitter in this new league has outscored the average pitcher (starters and relievers) by over 80 points! Now, that number seemed really high to me. I checked my other league, and I found that the same comparison showed that hitters only outscored pitchers by about 27 points in that league.

The funny thing is that each league uses identical scoring systems for the hitters. It's the pitchers that are differentiated by league.

The reason I feel this measurement is important is because I believe the only good league is a balanced league. In my mind, a league is truly balanced if you can substitute a hitter for a comprable pitcher (or vice versa) and not see a significant change in the expected result of the team.

Am I wrong here? Does this league's scoring system seem flawed to you, too?
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Postby KolbSaves » Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:00 pm

No I think you're right. I enjoy leagues that balance pitchers and hitters, like 5x5 roto leagues. The more things are balanced the more the manager has to work to ensure all scoring requirements are attended to, and I think balanced leagues as a result favor more skilled fantasy managers.
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Postby StlSluggers » Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:03 pm

KolbSaves wrote:No I think you're right. I enjoy leagues that balance pitchers and hitters, like 5x5 roto leagues. The more things are balanced the more the manager has to work to ensure all scoring requirements are attended to, and I think balanced leagues as a result favor more skilled fantasy managers.

That's what I was thinking. Given this discrepancy, if I played next year, I would bid on and draft hitters first, and then pick up some average pitchers for cheap. Why spend the money on Randy Johnson if he will barely outscore Reggie Sanders?
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Postby KolbSaves » Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:08 pm

Right on. Since this is a money league this strategy could end up literally paying off.
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Postby Kelly Gruber » Wed Aug 18, 2004 4:53 pm

You may be right, but just because pitchers are worth less points on average, it doesn't mean they are worth less than batters.

To compare pitchers to batters, you also have to take into account that you will need both. If it works out that the difference between the top say 10 pitchers and the rest of the pitchers is huge (and it may be a lot more than the difference between a top 10 batter and the rest of the batters) than it is definitly worth it to draft and/or trade for the top pitchers.

It might not do you any good to not draft any elite pitchers.


I have a program to analyse point systems, so if you write out yours, I'll plug in the numbers (from last year, at least) and then I can post them on this thread, if you want...
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Postby StlSluggers » Wed Aug 18, 2004 5:03 pm

I understand what you are saying. I have a program to do the same. The program I use calls that type of analysis "Value Above Mean" - maybe you use the same program.

That is a great way to analyze a scoring system, but it has one major flaw in that the answers will not work if the scoring system is not equitable for each position. If a great pitcher outscores the average pitcher by scoring 300 points versus 150 points, the VAM is going to be very large. However, if a batter scores 550 against an average of 375, his VAM score will not be as good as the pitcher. The fact is, though, that the hitter is actually gaining more points for you than the pitcher is in every respect.

When I did a VAM analysis on this league before I joined, I actually had many pitchers atop the chart. However, practical experience shows that those pitchers are not having the same impact on the game as average hitters are having. I see now that the reason for this is that the scoring system punishes average pitchers so greatly that a great pitcher really stands heads-and-shoulders above the average pitchers - but he still doesn't do nearly as good as a great hitter. Therein lies the flaw that I believe exists.

If you still want, you can check out the scoring system and post your thoughts. Just click here.
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Postby Kelly Gruber » Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:21 pm

My program only shows the value of batters and pitchers and not to such extensive categories (I wrote the program before the season for a points pool that I am in).

But, I do understand what you are saying.

Actually, it's kinda funny how it worked out in my pool because a manager is now complaining that closers are too valuable. I told him that closers, like SP's and batters are withing the same range as the average player held on a team (between 600-800 points). But, I see his point because while a closer will get you roughly the same amount as a decent starting pitcher, the closer will only use 80 innings while the SP will use around 200. So, he complained, a closer is worth a lot more points per inning.

It's all very complicated and I'm not sure if there is way that will satisfy everybody. But, the nature of the system is that everybody has the ability to "figure it out" before the draft, and therefore nobody is at an unfair advantage...
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Postby JTWood » Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:01 pm

I've never played in an innings league. That concept never has appealed to me. I play weekly, head-to-head because it has a more realistic feel to me. In those leagues, the big deal is pitchers who start twice in one week. I don't know if that's any better. It's just my preference.

Whatever the case, I always hear about how bad it is with relievers and innings pitched. I never hear of a league where the IP and relievers are balanced in a way to make it work well. I've never heard anyone complain about relievers in a weekly league, though.
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