Remember the Chipper vs Aramis thread?

[DK]

OK, I know I hit this thread a little late, but am I the only one who noticed that "Johan Freakin Santana" is three words, not two?

I'd probably take Chipper from here on out.

[Nerfherders]

"Okay, so if Da Cubs were manned entirely by mini-Aramises vs. the Braves, who'd win?"

"Umm... Da Cubs, 13-3"

"Da Cubs, 15-2"

"Da Cubs, 23-4"

"DA CUBS!"

[CubsFan7724]

How am I biased? I have numbers to back me up, this claim isnt unfounded or anything. Also, Aramis finished pretty damn strong once he got traded to the Cubs. I cant believe you would take Lowell ahead of him, who has been awful after starting out well. I bet you thought Chipper was the "safe choice" this year and there is no way in hell hes going to get to his career averages. Plus anyways, I was thumping my chest from when I said Aramis would be better then Chipper when the question was thrown up in May. You can't always go with the safe pick, and I think Chipper sort of proved that this year.

[Lofunzo]

Actually, I haven't been a big fan of Chipper. My reason was that you know what he's gonna produce. While he does have nice numbers, there were other options out there that had a higher ceiling and I wanted to roll the dice on them instead.

[George_Foreman]

with ramirez in a keeper league, there are two things:
1. he's a stude and this was his breakout year. he'll be a top-5 3b for the next 7 years
2. this was a career year. he'll never again match these numbers, and 2005 will look sickeningly like 2003.

Are you saying that it's either or??

yes.

I just don't really see anything in between. afaik, this season came out of nowhere. that either means (in my mind, anyways) that something major changed in the offseason and that's why he's doing well, or it's just a fluke. if he changed something (with his swing, workout regimin, anything that could be responsible for this year) then he'll probably keep doing that and be around for many good years. or it's just a fluke and he'll be a bust next year.

and while i'm at it:
CubsFan7724 said

How am I biased? I have numbers to back me up

no, you don't. if you want to controdict me, please show us the numbers you have that describe how aramis ramirez will be better than chipper the rest of the way. you claim to have them. please share.

[Lofunzo]

It's been a few years but this season didn't come out of no where. Take a look at 2001.

[Tavish]

He was .270 with 27 HR 100+ RBI in 2003, not exactly sickening numbers. He is showing more of the plate discipline he had in the minors when he was a hot prospect. He was pegged to hit in the mid to low .280 range so I wouldn't expect another .300+. Its not at all out of the question that he would end up next year in between his 2003 and 2004 numbers.

[CubsFan7724]

with ramirez in a keeper league, there are two things:
1. he's a stude and this was his breakout year. he'll be a top-5 3b for the next 7 years
2. this was a career year. he'll never again match these numbers, and 2005 will look sickeningly like 2003.

Are you saying that it's either or??

yes.

I just don't really see anything in between. afaik, this season came out of nowhere. that either means (in my mind, anyways) that something major changed in the offseason and that's why he's doing well, or it's just a fluke. if he changed something (with his swing, workout regimin, anything that could be responsible for this year) then he'll probably keep doing that and be around for many good years. or it's just a fluke and he'll be a bust next year.

and while i'm at it:
CubsFan7724 said

How am I biased? I have numbers to back me up

no, you don't. if you want to controdict me, please show us the numbers you have that describe how aramis ramirez will be better than chipper the rest of the way. you claim to have them. please share.

Actually when I was talking about in May when lots of people said Chipper would outproduce Aramis from that date, when he clearly hasn't.