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The truth about Giambi

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Postby rmeesig » Fri Jul 23, 2004 4:03 pm

Amazinz wrote:Whatever man. You're just being a fan-boy. Believe what you want to believe and defend Giambi until you're blue in the face. It's pretty obvious to the rest of us (or most of us) that the guy was using steroids. Just because he cannot be convicted on circumstantial evidence does not mean it is unfair to base our opinions on it. ;-)


Fan boy? Hardly. I can think of 100 million rea$on$ why I would rather NOT have Giambi on the Yankees.

You don't think a case of parasites wouldn't hinder his performance? I mean, the guy was hitting over 300 with a 900+ OPS before he was diagnosed with the parasites. If steroids were the reason for his decline in numbers, wouldn't we have seen the decline from the beginning of the season?

I'm just making a point that nothing has been confirmed. You can't believe everything you read. The Chronicle is owned by Hearst Publications - the same company that publishes the Star tabloid.

I never argued that you couldn't draw your own opinion - just take the time to get your facts straight before you profess your OPINON has gospel.
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Postby Amazinz » Fri Jul 23, 2004 4:09 pm

rmeesig wrote:You don't think a case of parasites wouldn't hinder his performance? I mean, the guy was hitting over 300 with a 900+ OPS before he was diagnosed with the parasites. If steroids were the reason for his decline in numbers, wouldn't we have seen the decline from the beginning of the season?

Read my post above. Health is definitely an issue and I never said nor do I think that steroid use or lack of is the cause of his problems. I do not think steroids affect plate discipline. ;-D
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Postby rmeesig » Fri Jul 23, 2004 4:10 pm

Found this elsewhere, and thought it was interesting. Giambi's tenure with the Yanks:

2002: Giambi appeared in 155 games for the Yankees and he never went to the DL all season long. He started off slow for the Yankees in 2002 but got hotter at the end of April.

April: .282 with 4HRs and 15 RBI
May: .340 with 10 HRs and 24 RBI
June: .329 with 7 HRs and 25 RBI
July: .341 with 7 HRs and 23 RBI
August: .224 with 4 HRs and 15 RBI
September: .388 with 9 HRs and 20 RBI

So Giambi had a pretty consistent year in 2002 and I think that he was scratched only from 1 game with a bruised thumb on 6/21.

2003: Giambi appeared in 156 games and again he did not go on the DL at any point. However, he began the year battling the eye problem and he missed 2 games in Oakland, 5/10-11, with inflammation in his left eye. Also he was scratched from another game , 4/24, against the Angels for a bruised middle finger as a result from a HBP the night before. Giambi had a streak of reaching base in 37 consecutive games in 2003 and he was named the AL player of the month in June. But approximately in July/August, he began to have problems with his knee which affected him for the rest of the season.

March: .000 but in only 5 ABs
April: .204 with 5 HRs and 16 RBI
May: .260 with 6 HRS and 18 RBI
June: .373 with 11 HRs and 29 RBI
July: .247 with 8 HRs and 20 RBI
August: .205 with 5 HRs and 11 RBI
September: .235 with 6 HRs and 13 RBI

He had knee surgery this past offseason and he was supposed to be fit for duty in 2004. Yet he's been anything but as he's dealt with several poroblems and I think that his DL stint with the sprained ankle may have been his 1st trip ever to the DL at the ML level.
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Postby rmeesig » Fri Jul 23, 2004 4:19 pm

Amazinz wrote:Read my post above. Health is definitely an issue and I never said nor do I think that steroid use or lack of is the cause of his problems. I do not think steroids affect plate discipline. ;-D


Agreed (finally ;) ). I will also defend Bonds as far as pure hitting skill goes. As you said, steroids doesn't affect plate discipline, something both Barry and Jason have tremendous ability with. It's not like Jason is striking out much more this year than previous - in fact, most of his outs are deep fly balls that used to clear the fence.

I don't know a whole lot about these parasites, but they are obviously much more of a hinderance than anyone could have ever imagined. It frustrates me when people think Giambi is using the parasites as an excuse, as that implies that Giambi, Kevin Brown and the entire Yankees organization are part of a large cover-up. Simply outrageous..
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Postby Lofunzo » Fri Jul 23, 2004 4:37 pm

Amazinz wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:Amazinz.......I don't know why you are nitpicking him. All that he did was ask for a credible source that implicates Giambi. That's all. He wasn't saying that he never used them. He just asked for a source. I don't know if you were around for all of the Bonds discussions but it makes it a lot easier to make a point with proof. Just like with politics, people like to profess facts as if they have proof when all that they did was find a cheesy article on the net.

But I said ealier in the thread that there was no concrete evidence that he used steroids. Nobody in the thread claimed they had concrete evidence and I never professed facts. Yet Rmeesig belabors the issue. IMHO there is nothing wrong with forming an opinion based on circumstantial evidence and stating that opinion. Giambi is implicated in this issue whether he likes it or not, so is Bonds and Sheffield. I know this issue is a dead horse so consider it dropped.


I was referring to the fact that this started when all that he asked was whether there was any information that showed that he used them. After that, you have written:

Amazinz wrote:
rmeesig wrote:I've been dying to see some undeniable proof that Giambi has used steroids. Can someone please show me where I can find this information?

There is no proof that he was using them but you have Anderson's (BALCO employee) testimony that Giambi was obtaining them from BALCO. You can play stupid if you want to but I don't think anyone obtains steroids and then doesn't use them. ;-)


Amazinz wrote:Whatever man. You're just being a fan-boy. Believe what you want to believe and defend Giambi until you're blue in the face. It's pretty obvious to the rest of us (or most of us) that the guy was using steroids. Just because he cannot be convicted on circumstantial evidence does not mean it is unfair to base our opinions on it. ;-)


Those don't sound like someone saying there isn't any proof that he used them. ;-)

For the record, I think that both Bonds and Giambi used the juice.
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Postby Amazinz » Fri Jul 23, 2004 4:42 pm

Amazinz wrote:There is no proof that he was using them ... ;-)

Lofunzo wrote:Those don't sound like someone saying there isn't any proof that he used them. ;-)

:-?

Are you just busting my chops? :-D
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Postby Lofunzo » Fri Jul 23, 2004 4:55 pm

I hope that you're kidding because you left out the but. ;-)
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Postby Amazinz » Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:01 pm

But what? I am serious. I think you are being unfair and twisting what said. ;-)
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Postby Lofunzo » Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:04 pm

Amazinz wrote:There is no proof that he was using them ... ;-)


There is a big difference between what you cropped above and what you really wrote:

Amazinz wrote:There is no proof that he was using them but you have Anderson's (BALCO employee) testimony that Giambi was obtaining them from BALCO. You can play stupid if you want to but I don't think anyone obtains steroids and then doesn't use them.
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Postby Amazinz » Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:11 pm

Is there? The quote of mine you posted says

1. There is no evidence Giambi used steroids
2. There is evidence he was obtaining them
3. IMO no one obtains steroids to not use them

Seems pretty much right on the stance I have taken throughout the thread.
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