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The truth about Giambi

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Postby rmeesig » Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:36 pm

My comment about libel was regarding the remarks made in this thread - that is libel. Written allegation without un-substantiated proof. I would happily eat my crow if one person could provide me with undeniable evidience that Jason Giambi used steroids. Nobody has been able to do so.

The athletes have nothing to sue over because they haven't been accused of anything. You can spin your answer (Because there is truth to it?) just as easily to "Because there is no truth to it?" In other words, why dignify a false allegation by giving it any attention at all?
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Postby Amazinz » Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:03 pm

From this article:

San Francisco Giants slugger Barry Bonds, New York Yankees stars Jason Giambi and Gary Sheffield and three other major league baseball players received steroids from a Burlingame nutritional supplement lab, federal investigators were told.

From this article:

The almost-daily developments, from denials to less-than-subtle finger-pointing, reached a new plateau Tuesday when the San Francisco Chronicle reported federal investigators were told sluggers Barry Bonds of the San Francisco Giants, Jason Giambi and Gary Sheffield of the New York Yankees, three other major leaguers and an NFL player received steroids from the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative in Burlingame, Calif.

From this article:

Conte's lawyers confirmed to the NY Times on Monday that in the IRS report, Conte is quoted as saying he provided steroids to high-profile athletes [...but later...] they denied that Conte provided the names of 27 athletes -- among them Bonds, Jones, Montgomery, Kelli White and the Yankees' Jason Giambi and Gary Sheffield -- to whom the report states he allegedly gave steroids.

From this article:

[...] Giambi told the Chronicle, "Uh, yeah, I was," when asked if he had been subpoenaed in connection with the probe of the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative, or BALCO. Giambi said he visited Burlingame, Calif.-based BALCO last fall before going on a tour of Japan with other major leaguers. "I just asked about some vitamins and supplements and stuff like that," Giambi said. "No big deal." [Umm, OK]

The leaked information from Anderson and Conte named GIAMBI. The last article was just for fun. Giambi goes to BALCO for his vitamins! LMAO.
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Postby Amazinz » Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:05 pm

rmeesig wrote:I would happily eat my crow if one person could provide me with undeniable evidience that Jason Giambi used steroids.

Nobody has undeniable evidence. You know that so why do you keep asking for it? Lol. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence.

I am not trying to prove Giambi used steroids. But you argued that Giambi was named in Anderson's and Conte's testimony. And he was.
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Postby great gretzky » Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:20 pm

give it up already. especially when in a forum it is obvious that it is someone's opinion ... and that for ibel there would have to be harm involved.

There is plenty of circumstantial evidence that he did, and a lot of people feel that way. you aren't his lawyer.
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Postby rmeesig » Fri Jul 23, 2004 3:16 pm

never claimed to be his lawyer - just disputing the thread topic, and the lack of support for it. Says "the truth about Giambi"...so now all of a sudden one person's opinion is truth?

If the topic starter calls his thread "the truth" - I would expect some proof...a more appropriate topic would have been "more speculation about Giambi"
Last edited by rmeesig on Fri Jul 23, 2004 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby rmeesig » Fri Jul 23, 2004 3:19 pm

Amazinz wrote:Nobody has undeniable evidence. You know that so why do you keep asking for it? Lol. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence.

I am not trying to prove Giambi used steroids. But you argued that Giambi was named in Anderson's and Conte's testimony. And he was.


Nobody ever got a guilty conviction from circumstantial evidence.

All of your links seem to refer to "federal investigators were told" - so that is NOT testimony! Strictly hearsay - which is why the government is now launching an INVESTIGATION - not indictment. Nothing has been proven.
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Postby Amazinz » Fri Jul 23, 2004 3:27 pm

Whatever man. You're just being a fan-boy. Believe what you want to believe and defend Giambi until you're blue in the face. It's pretty obvious to the rest of us (or most of us) that the guy was using steroids. Just because he cannot be convicted on circumstantial evidence does not mean it is unfair to base our opinions on it. ;-)
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Postby blankman » Fri Jul 23, 2004 3:33 pm

Lets get back to the point.... IF lack of steriods are the reason for poor performance this year, then what explains his .250 average last year? The idea was to figure out what has caused his downfall. Whether he took steriods or not IS NOT the issue. Something else obviously must have contributed to cause his great fall in average.

Is it the Giambi shift? Does anyone know when teams started using it? Is it just health issues- eyesight last year, knee injuries, parasites this year? What is it? And do not say steriods, because that is clearly not the reason for his fall in average last year, that has continued this year.
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Postby Lofunzo » Fri Jul 23, 2004 3:39 pm

Amazinz.......I don't know why you are nitpicking him. All that he did was ask for a credible source that implicates Giambi. That's all. He wasn't saying that he never used them. He just asked for a source. I don't know if you were around for all of the Bonds discussions but it makes it a lot easier to make a point with proof. Just like with politics, people like to profess facts as if they have proof when all that they did was find a cheesy article on the net.
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Postby Amazinz » Fri Jul 23, 2004 4:00 pm

Lofunzo wrote:Amazinz.......I don't know why you are nitpicking him. All that he did was ask for a credible source that implicates Giambi. That's all. He wasn't saying that he never used them. He just asked for a source. I don't know if you were around for all of the Bonds discussions but it makes it a lot easier to make a point with proof. Just like with politics, people like to profess facts as if they have proof when all that they did was find a cheesy article on the net.

But I said ealier in the thread that there was no concrete evidence that he used steroids. Nobody in the thread claimed they had concrete evidence and I never professed facts. Yet Rmeesig belabors the issue. IMHO there is nothing wrong with forming an opinion based on circumstantial evidence and stating that opinion. Giambi is implicated in this issue whether he likes it or not, so is Bonds and Sheffield. I know this issue is a dead horse so consider it dropped.

blankman wrote:Is it the Giambi shift? Does anyone know when teams started using it? Is it just health issues- eyesight last year, knee injuries, parasites this year? What is it? And do not say steriods, because that is clearly not the reason for his fall in average last year, that has continued this year.

The shift is part of it but this only accounts for the batting average. His Ks are way up and his OBP has plummeted since coming to Yankee stadium. He is not the same hitter anymore but I don't think it's because his ability is degrading. Health has obviously been an issue but my theory is it's Yankee stadium causing the problems. I think he is facing the same issue Hidalgo started to face in Houston and many batters have faced in Fenway. He is trying to take advantage of Yankee stadium's dimensions and in doing so has over-compensated and has become a free swinger. I really thought Mattingly would be able to correct this problem which is why I thought he be a "sleeper" of sorts this year.
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