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Orlando Cabrera to Cubs?

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Postby NZF » Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:21 pm

LBJackal wrote:
They may strike out a lot, but they score a lot of runs as well. The Astros and Marlins have pretty damn good lineups and the Cubs are scoring more than them, and have been without Aramis and Sosa for extended periods. With everybody healthy...... they have an awesome lineup. One of the best in the NL.


Your argument is a joke. Look outside the square. You keep on comparing the Cubs to Houston and Florida as an example of why they are good but then chose to ignore the other example with the Expos as to why they perhaps are not so good.

Ramirez has missed just 11 games this season, or put into perspective, a little more than a week. Sosa has been back since the beginning of June. Over this same period Lee has improved out of sight. The fact remains, as I've already alluded to, since the 1st of June, the Cubs with all these things in their favour and at full strength, have outscored that mighty offensive beast the Montreal Expos by 9 runs.

You said Cabrera will finally be coming to a club that produces offensively. Well sorry to be the bearer of bad news for Cabrera owners but to think the Cubs are THAT much better at the moment than the Expos offensively is a fallacy, as I've proved.

This has nothing to do with Cub hating. As you should know I for one have no favourites. This is a simple case of stating factual evidence to support my argument that the Cubs are way over rated by many people. I just cannot undertsand why.
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Postby Hey » Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:36 pm

Look at the lineup and other players and youll understand why.
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Postby The Jury » Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:09 pm

New Zealand Fan wrote: This is a simple case of stating factual evidence to support my argument that the Cubs are way over rated by many people. I just cannot undertsand why.


They are "overrated" because they have so much talent that if they play to their potential then they will be serious contenders for the World Series.
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Postby rich101682 » Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:49 pm

New Zealand Fan wrote:You said Cabrera will finally be coming to a club that produces offensively. Well sorry to be the bearer of bad news for Cabrera owners but to think the Cubs are THAT much better at the moment than the Expos offensively is a fallacy, as I've proved.


You haven't PROVED anything really. The Cubs underachieve, but they are really much better than the Expos. Just wait till the end of the season.
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Postby NZF » Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:29 pm

rich101682 wrote:
New Zealand Fan wrote:You said Cabrera will finally be coming to a club that produces offensively. Well sorry to be the bearer of bad news for Cabrera owners but to think the Cubs are THAT much better at the moment than the Expos offensively is a fallacy, as I've proved.


You haven't PROVED anything really. The Cubs underachieve, but they are really much better than the Expos. Just wait till the end of the season.


Oh yes I have. I have proved that the Cubs offense since June is really not much better than the Expos. It's a simple as that. Everything else is based on opinion, but don't you let the facts get it the way of a good story.
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Postby AcidRock23 » Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:42 pm

I'd have to say that I'd like to see the Cubs get Cabrera soon if they are going to move. At this point, even with the nice W today, they have been mired in the doldrums for too long. If they get a bunch of homers, they might win, if not, they are almost guaranteed a loss, even if they pitch decently.

Cabrera is not really blowing people away either but it's pretty clear that he's not happy in Montreal. He would add some speed to the lineup (12/15 SB this year...the Cubs' leader is Patterson w/ 10!!) and, if he can pick it up a bit in a more competitive environment, I think that he could make a substantial difference for the Cubs.

A good series against the Reds would also be a nice step towards getting back into the swing of things but I think that they really have to try to get more of a 'small ball' attitude going on and make some contact. Look at what Womack has done for the Cards...he gets on, annoys the hell out of pitchers and scores VERY regularly w/ the bats behind him. I think that Cabrera has the potential, probably for a reasonable price, to perhaps move it up and play the same sort of role for the Cubs. Only 10 days to go to find out but why wait?
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Postby Kelly Gruber » Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:49 am

The Cubs offense is one of the best in baseball. So the Expos run production is not far off since June? Have you ever heard of a cold streak and slumping? A measure for a good season is whether or not a team finishes above .500. Do you know what that means? A team can lose 49% of its games and still have a "winning season." The same thing with run production; just because the Cubs have been a little cold in that department doesn't mean their offense is non-existant; it is just dormant.

You justify your argument with stats and therefore you think it must be right, but you are far too near-sighted to make a judgement on a cumulative and streaky result such as this. As has been said before, wait until the end of the year, and even take into account run production from years past to get a larger sample and then try to make an argument that one of the most feared lineups has no reason to be feared.
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Postby LBJackal » Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:01 am

New Zealand Fan wrote:
LBJackal wrote:
They may strike out a lot, but they score a lot of runs as well. The Astros and Marlins have pretty damn good lineups and the Cubs are scoring more than them, and have been without Aramis and Sosa for extended periods. With everybody healthy...... they have an awesome lineup. One of the best in the NL.


Your argument is a joke. Look outside the square. You keep on comparing the Cubs to Houston and Florida as an example of why they are good but then chose to ignore the other example with the Expos as to why they perhaps are not so good.

Ramirez has missed just 11 games this season, or put into perspective, a little more than a week. Sosa has been back since the beginning of June. Over this same period Lee has improved out of sight. The fact remains, as I've already alluded to, since the 1st of June, the Cubs with all these things in their favour and at full strength, have outscored that mighty offensive beast the Montreal Expos by 9 runs.

You said Cabrera will finally be coming to a club that produces offensively. Well sorry to be the bearer of bad news for Cabrera owners but to think the Cubs are THAT much better at the moment than the Expos offensively is a fallacy, as I've proved.

This has nothing to do with Cub hating. As you should know I for one have no favourites. This is a simple case of stating factual evidence to support my argument that the Cubs are way over rated by many people. I just cannot undertsand why.


So for 2 months, the Expos ALMOST had as many runs as the Cubs. Overall, the Cubs have 116 more runs. I'm sure I can find a span of a month or two that the D'Rays outscored the Yankees......... or soemthing ridiculous like that.

Bottom line: the Cubs will score a LOT more runs than the Expos.
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Postby NZF » Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:30 am

Kelly Gruber wrote:The Cubs offense is one of the best in baseball. So the Expos run production is not far off since June? Have you ever heard of a cold streak and slumping?


Man it gets tedious having to repeat yourself.

The Cubs haven't been slumping since June. They've hit like this all year. The only reason I've used June is to illustrate my point that since then, the Cubs have scored only a handful of runs more than the Expos. Before June the Expos were worse than pathetic but have obviously improved a tad since. All I'm saying is that don't be fooled into thinking the value of Cabrera will increase dramatically because he's rumoured to be moving to the Cubs who have this magnificent offense. It's a fallacy. They don't. Wake up and smell the coffee.
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Postby NZF » Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:39 am

LBJackal wrote:
So for 2 months, the Expos ALMOST had as many runs as the Cubs. Overall, the Cubs have 116 more runs. I'm sure I can find a span of a month or two that the D'Rays outscored the Yankees......... or soemthing ridiculous like that.

Bottom line: the Cubs will score a LOT more runs than the Expos.


Bad example with the D'Rays and the Yankees. Looking at the averages of the respective lineups I would suggest it's happened regularly this season.

Anyway back to the point of my post which you are continously failing to grab. Cabrera wasn't going to the Cubs in April, May when the Cubs were scoring all those runs more than the Expos. He might be going now. It's relevant therefore to look at the respective offenses over recent weeks. I did that and proved that the Expos are hitting not much worse RIGHT NOW than the Cubs.

You said Cabrera may finally be moving to a club that produces. Once again, I dispute at this point that the Cubs are much of an upgrade over the Expos. The past 7 weeks prove this.
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