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Pudge for MVP

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Postby CubsFan7724 » Sat Jul 17, 2004 10:04 pm

If I put defense into the equation with Manny vs Vlad it just strengthens Vlads case. I was just showing they have pretty similar offensive stats.
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Postby Nomar4prez » Sat Jul 17, 2004 10:05 pm

CubsFan7724 wrote:If I put defense into the equation with Manny vs Vlad it just strengthens Vlads case. I was just showing they have pretty similar offensive stats.


Manny is honestly the Best Worst fielder I've ever seen.
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Postby Pokey » Sat Jul 17, 2004 10:55 pm

I would take Manny over Vlad (even if I weren't a sox fan) SB's are nice, but are they mor important than home runs? Vlad may have 6 more steals than Manny... but Manny has 6 more homers than Vlad. That's a significant difference. Also I think Manny's 135 point advantage in OPS is worth alot of considering. I think you have to give the MVP to the guy who leads the league in homers, OBP, SLG and OPS.
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Postby thetongueofire » Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:46 pm

cubsfan- im not trying to be a homer :-D ... but theres no denying that as of right now Manny has been the best hitter in the AL this year upto this point.

aight.. lets look at the numbers once again. Manny on the left and Sir Vlad on the right. the AL ranks are in the ().


RBI- 77(T-2) 77 (T-2)
R- 55 (15) 74(1)
BA .342(3) .341(4)
HR- 26(1) 20(6)
2B- 28(3) 25 (6)

SB (did i hear "overrated" in real life ball)- Manny:1 Vlad:7

these are the ones that id say count MORE than circumstancial and dare i say somewhat "lucky" stats like RBI's and Runs. :-)

OBP- .434(1) .391(12)
SLUG.- .674(1) .582 (4)

OPS- 1.108(1) .973 (5)

yep, Manny has 19 less runs than Vlad but his obp is more than 40 points higher. :-?

of course, Manny also has a sizable lead in TB and XBH's and is at the top in both of those cats. and also if you wanna know and its not already clear enough, i'll prove to you that Manny has shown a lot more raw power than Vlad. :-°

of course, i love Vlad and when all is said and done, Vlad will obviously be one of the top candidates for AL MVP but im sick and tired of people thinking that Vlad is the slam dunk AL MVP of this year. i dont think many people realize that Manny is having a rhidiculously good year and is on pace for what would be his career year.

of course theres a lot of time left and i wount be surprised even a tiny bit if Vlad won the mvp but right now its gotta be Manny.
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Postby thetongueofire » Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:47 pm

even though i despise the messed up traditional quasirule of only guys on winning teams winning the mvp... i dont think its magically gonna disapear this year. and as of right now, outta the top 3 of Vlad, Manny and pudge, i know for sure that Pudge's team wont make the playoffs and the halos wont either unless they can get another pretty good pitcher AND get John Kruk's mommy back in shape (his statline looks fine tonight 'cept for the 5 bibbies). however i think like a majority of people (homer or no homer) i think the Sox have a slightly better chance of making the playoffs.

as we've seen in the past a lot still depends on the second half and which teams make the playoffs. :-°
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Postby pomplona's finest » Sun Jul 18, 2004 12:15 am

He is up there, but Pudge cant match up to Vlad.
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Postby hersch223 » Sun Jul 18, 2004 1:31 am

Personally, I think the MVP winner will the guy who has the best second half. If you finish strong and lead your team to the playoffs, you have good chance at it. I just don't see Pudge keeping this pace up, or the Tigers playing in October.
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Postby PresHabib » Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:02 pm

Interesting debate ;-D Ramble pretty much illuminated exactly why I thought the MVP should be Pudge...lets not forget that this years REIGNING AL MVP is Alex Rodriguez, who played for a last place team too.

If the Tigers win 70 games this year, or even 75 if we want to go crazy, then I think Pudge has to be the MVP, seeing as how hed be helping to almost DOUBLE the teams win total of the previous season.

I hate the stupid stigma (present as it may be) that only guys on winning teams win the MVP...even if last year wasn't the case with that i know it usually is...but i think ARod winning it last year for the last place rangers might help pudge's case.

I say...pudge, then vlad, then I cast a vote for Lou Piniella as impossible as it may be, then Michael Young, then manny (even though I think david ortiz might actually be the sox MVP) and a sympathy vote for Carl Crawford just because I want to pick a tampa bay cuz they've been so good. (relatively speaking)
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Postby PresHabib » Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:06 pm

actually, screw that, Michael Young is just as deserving as Pudge, i can't decide between them...probably pudge though...so i say

1) Pudge...maybe young
2) Young...if pudge is first
3) Piniella (I dont care if hes not elligible, he did essentially get TRADED for a player though (randy winn))
4) Vlad
5) Manny
6) Crawford (hes not the 6th most valuable, but i dont care, i have to pick a devil ray who IS elligible...maybe I should pick Rocco, PRIDE OF RHODE ISLAND BABY!)
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Postby scorched03 » Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:44 pm

ortiz and manny are ripping the cover off the ball. some (not me, but random writers) said ortiz is more valuable... i dunno but i think manny is way better.

however one or the other will get hurt though they have trouble with that.

pudge also slows down 2nd half, but is extremely valuable. .500 for a month? is that a record cuz that's insane

i would give it to vlad since i think he'll continue getting better as rest of hurt angels round into form.
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