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Postby Lofunzo » Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:04 am

LBJackal wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:
Registered_Guest wrote:In other news in the sports world, hockey has gone on strike. I have no links for this and none are to be expected anytime soon.

Word has it when hockey season rolls around and no games are being played, they want to see if anyone actually notices...

Or cares. ;-D


:-t :-t

LBJackal wrote:Canadians don't put their money where their mouth is? WTF are you talking about? Canadians support their hockey teams much more than Americans. Just because we have less people doesn't mean we don't support our teams. Toronto has always been one of the most profitable teams in the NHL, despite having a dollar worth a lot less than the American dollar.

Teams in Arizona and Georgia is what is wrong with hockey....... having 10,000,000 fans of a team with no die-hard fans is worse than 10,000 fans who are all die-hard. Not better financially, but that's what you get for letting Americans stick their noses in where they don't belong...........


Stick their noses where they don't belong?? For whatever reasons, the NHL has trouble keeping a handful of teams in Canada. You want more?? As for diehard fans, you need to be objective about this. Atlanta (your example) has only been in the league for a few years. Comparing their fans to the fans of an original six team is useless. Obviously, there will be more diehards for Toronto. Just wondering.......When you made this statement, what numbers do you have for the number of true Atlanta fans?? I'm quite sure that you had some research done before making that statement. ;-7


Yes, sticking their noses where they don't belong.

When the NHL was mostly Canadian, and northern US teams, it was easy for a small market with lots of fans to support a team. Then all these southerners bought a team, started paying huge amounts of money to all the players, and the Canadian teams couldn't afford it. We have the fans, you have the money. You guys have to spend a ton of money to get interest, and by doing that you make most of the players too expensive for small markets (most of which are Canadian).

Now we're in a state of hockey where players are getting paid too much, there isn't enough interest since a ton of great players are in places who don't appreciate them, and teams are losing money because salaries were driven up so much while attendance and fan support souldn't possibly increase since it was already at it's terminal height, so to speak.

Don't blame Canada for the collapse of hockey, it was fine before the southerners poked their noses in..........


Puh-lease. I didn't blame Canada. Hockey players are getting too much $$ because it was a transgression in sports that happens. Just because all was well in the NHL when there were a lot of Canadian teams and northern US teams doesn't mean anything. It's coincidence. Most of the southern US teams are even frugal. I'm not saying that I like the expansion as it was done. I don't. All that I'm saying is that they players, much like in every other sport, started earning way too much. It just happens. Don't blame the southern US teams for that.
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Postby Lofunzo » Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:13 am

LBJackal wrote:
Amazinz wrote:
LBJackal wrote:Don't blame Canada for the collapse of hockey, it was fine before the southerners poked their noses in..........

I don't blame Canada or any country in particular for the NHL's problems. But keep in mind that the NHL powers that be (both American and Canadian) solicited southern venues. You make it sound as if it's some diabolical master plan by the hicks of the U.S. to undermine hockey. :-D


The decision to expand to the south was a bad one... I'm not saying that the powers that be aren't at fault, and some of thsoe are Canadian (although I really don't know specifics, since it's irrelevent) because they are. I'm just saying that adding more big-budget teams (read: American cities with large populations that don't like hockey) ruined the league. Just like the Yankees are ruining baseball. Sure, it's within the rules, but it's still ruining parity.


I pretty much disagree with everything that you wrote here. Last things first, the Yankees might not be great for baseball but, IMHO, the bigger problem is the majority of teams that let players go and don't sign anyone (including their own). Less available players means less players that the Yankees can get. If you're worried about parity, worry about the 15+ teams that pocket luxury tax $$ and not the 1 team at the top. Back to the topic, I agree that the southern expansion wasn't great but please tell me a US team that is the result of recent expansion that is ruining the league with big salaries. Other than Dallas, there aren't any. And they aren't ruining the league.
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Postby LBJackal » Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:55 am

Southern US teams paying big bucks to NHLers?

The Panthers getting Bure.

Anaheim paying big money to Kariya and Selanne.

San Jose giving big money to Selanne

Dallas signing a lot of players (like you already mentioned)

LA getting Gretzky

Phoenix getting JR

I'm sure there are lots more, but that's off the top of my head. And if you start to include NY, Detroit, and Colorado, it gets even worse.

It's not just that teams form the south drive up prices, they bother me more because they have a team when they don't deserve one. For the most part they are just diluting talent and a waste of time and money for the NHL, but teams like the Rangers who have huge amounts of money and drive up salaries are a big problem.

I'm not faulting the American cities for the downfall, I'm faulting the fact that they are allowed to do this. The NHL never should have expanded this large, and should have implemented a salary cap long ago to allow the true hockey towns like Winnipeg to keep their team. Who knows whose next? Calgary was in danger until this season when they managed to go to game 7 of the Cup Finals with ony one star player.

All I'm saying is that because big market teams have been allowed to come in and offer huge contracts to players, small market teams with real fans get screwed. I know there are lots of hockey fans in the US, which is great, but it's a Canadian sport and we're losing all the good players, and eventually all of our teams, simply because we don't have as big a population. I don't think you can dispute that.........
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Postby slomo007 » Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:24 am

Speaking as a Dallas resident and Stars fan, Dallas is by no means "ruining the league." I was unfamiliar with hockey up to about 6 or 7 years ago, when I began to follow it, similar to many other Dallas/southern US residents. I am grateful the move from Minnesota happened, because it enabled me to find out about one of the best sports out there.

Someone explain how Dallas is ruining the NHL? I see no validity in that comment. They aren't the Yankees of the NHL.
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Postby Mookie4ever » Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:49 am

slomo007 wrote:Speaking as a Dallas resident and Stars fan, Dallas is by no means "ruining the league." I was unfamiliar with hockey up to about 6 or 7 years ago, when I began to follow it, similar to many other Dallas/southern US residents. I am grateful the move from Minnesota happened, because it enabled me to find out about one of the best sports out there.

Someone explain how Dallas is ruining the NHL? I see no validity in that comment. They aren't the Yankees of the NHL.


I agree with Slomo.

I was down in Dallas 3 years ago and got to go to a Stars game. The AA center is great, it was packed and the fans were very good (and surprisingly knowledgeable) and everyone wanted to talk hockey (especially when they found out that I was from Canada).

Their payroll is pretty high but you can't blame them for wanting to hang on to their best players and ice a quality product. They are not buying a team as the Rangers try to do every year. Their stars are for the most part homegrown (Turco, Modano, Morrow, Lehtinen) or acquired in fair trades (Zubov, ARnott).

They are a good organization and a model of how a franchise should be run.

btw - nobody knew about hockey when the Stars moved there from Minnesota so they brought back Peter the Puck (I don't know if anyone remembers him but I used to watch his cartoons as a kid) and played them on Dallas TV to educate the fans about hockey - now that's cool.
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Postby slomo007 » Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:54 am

Mookie4ever wrote:
slomo007 wrote:Speaking as a Dallas resident and Stars fan, Dallas is by no means "ruining the league." I was unfamiliar with hockey up to about 6 or 7 years ago, when I began to follow it, similar to many other Dallas/southern US residents. I am grateful the move from Minnesota happened, because it enabled me to find out about one of the best sports out there.

Someone explain how Dallas is ruining the NHL? I see no validity in that comment. They aren't the Yankees of the NHL.


I agree with Slomo.

I was down in Dallas 3 years ago and got to go to a Stars game. The AA center is great, it was packed and the fans were very good (and surprisingly knowledgeable) and everyone wanted to talk hockey (especially when they found out that I was from Canada).

Their payroll is pretty high but you can't blame them for wanting to hang on to their best players and ice a quality product. They are not buying a team as the Rangers try to do every year. Their stars are for the most part homegrown (Turco, Modano, Morrow, Lehtinen) or acquired in fair trades (Zubov, ARnott).

They are a good organization and a model of how a franchise should be run.

btw - nobody knew about hockey when the Stars moved there from Minnesota so they brought back Peter the Puck (I don't know if anyone remembers him but I used to watch his cartoons as a kid) and played them on Dallas TV to educate the fans about hockey - now that's cool.


Thanks for the support, and yeah the entire city is hockey nuts. The Stars have truly been a blessing to the city, and I agree the fans are actually knowledgable (surprises me too!).

Seems to me that the Stars have actually had to let some great players go due to salary concerns (Hull, Hatcher, and Belfour most notably). When's the last time an MVP caliber player has left the Yankees as a FA or in a salary dump trade?
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