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What do you think of the all-star game counting

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Postby Amazinz » Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:21 pm

Tavish wrote:
Amazinz wrote:
StlSluggers wrote:To reiterate, no matter what you say, the current system is better than simply alternating the home-field advantage.

I think you're preaching to the choir. No one in this thread said that the alternating method was superior to the AS game method. Neither work.


Both work, home field advantage doesn't really matter. They could give home field to the team with the highest combined weight and it wouldn't really matter.

I understand what you're trying to do, Tavish. Get someone to bite that bait so you can reply that there is no provable correlation between home field advantage and World Series success. But that point doesn't matter.

Both systems are an unfair means of determining home field advantage. Despite the history of the World Series I know most teams would select home field advantage given the choice. ;-)
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Postby Tavish » Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:12 pm

Amazinz wrote:I understand what you're trying to do, Tavish. Get someone to bite that bait so you can reply that there is no provable correlation between home field advantage and World Series success. But that point doesn't matter.

Both systems are an unfair means of determining home field advantage. Despite the history of the World Series I know most teams would select home field advantage given the choice. ;-)


Of course the point matters, why is it unfair if home field doesn't matter. Home field basically means greater revenue for the team that gets it. Like I said earlier I am just freaking tired of hearing "this time it counts" everytime the All-Star game is mentioned so I will continue to make the point. The game shouldn't be managed like a serious game, it shouldn't be watched as though its a serious game, players shouldn't be selected as though its a serious game.

I don't want to watch Jack Wilson or Ken Harvey play because they have had a great 81 games and may give a team a better shot at winning a game that doesn't count. If Bonds is intentionally walked to win a game that doesn't count, Torre loses every bit of respect I have ever had for him as a manager. I would rather have every All-Star game end in a tie than to hear "this time it counts" a thousand times each year.
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Postby Amazinz » Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:23 pm

Well we agree about the stupidity of the AS game counting.

As for home field advantage there is no absolute proof either way that it does matter. Here is a quote from SABR that says it does:

In his recent article, “Is There a Home Field Advantage in the World Series?”, Abramowitz analyzed the 76 World Series games played under the current 2-3-2 home-away-home format adopted in 1925. (The years 1943 and 1945 did not use this format because of WWII travel restrictions and no Series was played in 1994.) He found that teams playing the first two games at home have won 58% of World Series played under this format.

Now you can say well 58% is not a very large magin. Correct but 76 7-game series is not a very large sample size.

So it may matter in which case I stand by my opinion that using an exhibition game to decide home field advantage is a sham. ;-)
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Postby blankman » Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:37 pm

CubsFan7724 wrote:If you want it to count for the players, give a money bonus to the players of the league that wins. I think they are money driven enough to play hard if they can get a nice 1 million dollar boost to their income. If you do this get rid of the fan voting so lower payed players like Jack Wilson and Micheal Young get their chance in on the money.


The fact remains that fan voting draws more attention to the game and increases its viewing. To eliminate it would be a very rash financial decision.

As for paying players, who's going to provide the money? MLB obviously can't afford to shell out $30 million or however many players are on a team- look at the MLB-owned Expos. So then what? Are you going to instill an "All-Star tax" on Steinbrenner to pay for it? Offering monetary incentive to the players only caters more to a "money driven" attitude. You act as though $1 million is mere pocket change, when its actually more than many players, All-Stars included, make and more importantly would somehow need to be provided, when surely, no one would willingly shoulder the immense cost.
Last edited by blankman on Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby blankman » Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:38 pm

My opinon- the "counting" of the game is insane and best record should determine home field advantage.
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Postby Amazinz » Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:47 pm

blankman wrote:So then what? Are you going to instill and "All-Star tax" on Steinbrenner to pay for it?

I like this idea. I say we just keep taxing the hell out of the Yankees until they go under. :-b
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Postby Tavish » Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:51 pm

Amazinz wrote:Well we agree about the stupidity of the AS game counting.


Well sort of I guess, I think the stupidity is people actually worreid about it counting when the game means no more than it did 3 years ago.

As for home field advantage there is no absolute proof either way that it does matter. Here is a quote from SABR that says it does:

In his recent article, “Is There a Home Field Advantage in the World Series?”, Abramowitz analyzed the 76 World Series games played under the current 2-3-2 home-away-home format adopted in 1925. (The years 1943 and 1945 did not use this format because of WWII travel restrictions and no Series was played in 1994.) He found that teams playing the first two games at home have won 58% of World Series played under this format.

Now you can say well 58% is not a very large magin. Correct but 76 7-game series is not a very large sample size.

So it may matter in which case I stand by my opinion that using an exhibition game to decide home field advantage is a sham. ;-)


ACK! You baited me into giving you a reason to post historical numbers didn't you? :-b I have to run off to class real quick, but there are more reasons other than simply sample size those numbers are not real conclusive either way.
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Postby ja515y » Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:57 pm

despite the fact that it might be unfair, does it make the all-star game more interesting? I think it does. watch for yourself in like 5 minutes. sweet. ;-D
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Postby Amazinz » Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:03 pm

Tavish wrote:
Amazinz wrote:Well we agree about the stupidity of the AS game counting.


Well sort of I guess, I think the stupidity is people actually worreid about it counting when the game means no more than it did 3 years ago.

As for home field advantage there is no absolute proof either way that it does matter. Here is a quote from SABR that says it does:

In his recent article, “Is There a Home Field Advantage in the World Series?”, Abramowitz analyzed the 76 World Series games played under the current 2-3-2 home-away-home format adopted in 1925. (The years 1943 and 1945 did not use this format because of WWII travel restrictions and no Series was played in 1994.) He found that teams playing the first two games at home have won 58% of World Series played under this format.

Now you can say well 58% is not a very large magin. Correct but 76 7-game series is not a very large sample size.

So it may matter in which case I stand by my opinion that using an exhibition game to decide home field advantage is a sham. ;-)


ACK! You baited me into giving you a reason to post historical numbers didn't you? :-b I have to run off to class real quick, but there are more reasons other than simply sample size those numbers are not real conclusive either way.

We'll just agree to disagree. :-D
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Postby thehat » Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:10 pm

58% seems fairly significant to me, even if the sample size is relatively small. All I know is that I'd sure rather be hosting 1-2 and 6-7 than the three in the middle.
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