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This is why Eric Milton is no all star

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Postby Pedantic » Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:49 pm

11 wins means that 11 times his team scored more runs than he gave up while he was pitching and that they eventually won the game without relinquishing the lead. As of June 30th, the Phillies have averaged 7.86 runs per nine innings when he is on the mound.
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Postby JOEG » Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:52 pm

so 11 wins is 11 wins, who cares how many runs were scored

winning is everything in baseball and this guy was involved in 11 of them which is great

Not biased as we overpaid for him and got Silva for him whose about as effective as single ply toliet paper, so if anything I hope he does bad, actually he was a very nice guy, so I'm happy for his success
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Postby perlick29 » Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:53 pm

WhiteHot wrote:
perlick29 wrote:
WhiteHot wrote:Did you watch the game? The 3-run HR early in the game was a obvious foul ball. It wasn't a HR.



So that's why he should be an all star? Because the ball was foul?

Did he pitch well otherwise? No. 9 hits 2 BB in 6.2 innings.

So the ball was foul, it was crushed. He didn't pitch well otherwise, that's why he's not an all-star.


It seems like you are using today's game as some kind of proof that he shouldn't be an all-star (i agree he shouldn't be an all-star, but your logic is flawed).

First, you don't mention the 6Ks. Way to throw up a strawman.

Second, it shouldn't be 6ER because of a obviously botched call.

Third, so if someone crushes a foul ball, that makes the pitcher bad? That's pretty much what you are saying.

Fourth, do you see the park that he has to pitch in? It's a friggin' launching pad.

Fifth, don't ever make cases on one outing. It seems thats what you are doing here. Everyone bashed Santana early in the year and what happened? Every praised Zito before the season and what happened? 9 hits in 6.2 isn't that bad considering one hit was false.


The 6k's I probably should've mentioned but other than that here's the point:

He was being hit hard tonight which is following a long line of non- quality starts this year. This one start was not the point i was making, The point is this was another one of his starts where he gives up a lot of runs only this time he got no support.

The ball that was foul was hit hard like all the rest of the hits he gave up.

As to your point about Citizen's bank being a launching pad: ERA and WHIP at home: 4.21 and 1.50. ERA and WHIP on the road: 4.80 and 1.56. Meaning it aint just the park big guy.
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Re: so

Postby perlick29 » Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:55 pm

JOEG wrote:so 11 wins is 11 wins, who cares how many runs were scored

winning is everything in baseball and this guy was involved in 11 of them which is great

Not biased as we overpaid for him and got Silva for him whose about as effective as single ply toliet paper, so if anything I hope he does bad, actually he was a very nice guy, so I'm happy for his success


So you would have him on your fantasy team with those numbers? 11 wins is nice but how about ERA and WHIP?
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Re: so

Postby JOEG » Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:57 pm

perlick29 wrote:
JOEG wrote:so 11 wins is 11 wins, who cares how many runs were scored

winning is everything in baseball and this guy was involved in 11 of them which is great

Not biased as we overpaid for him and got Silva for him whose about as effective as single ply toliet paper, so if anything I hope he does bad, actually he was a very nice guy, so I'm happy for his success


So you would have him on your fantasy team with those numbers? 11 wins is nice but how about ERA and WHIP?


Didn't know I said he was a good fantasy pitcher...... I must of missed that part, I just said he has 11 wins which is very impressive no matter what. I think the Philly management could care less about his WHIP, btu are smiling about the fact that he has notched 11 wins.
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Re: so

Postby Pedantic » Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:05 pm

JOEG wrote:so 11 wins is 11 wins, who cares how many runs were scored

winning is everything in baseball and this guy was involved in 11 of them which is great


My point was that Mark Wohlers could have started and the Phillies would still win most of the time with that run support. In other words, the run support makes whoever is on the mound insignificant as far as their accomplishments.

And one doesn't have to use one start to defend the argument that Milton isn't that great. His 4.73 career ERA speaks for itself. This is no Ben Sheets waiting to happen.
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Postby WhiteHot » Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:08 pm

perlick29 wrote:The 6k's I probably should've mentioned but other than that here's the point:

He was being hit hard tonight which is following a long line of non- quality starts this year. This one start was not the point i was making, The point is this was another one of his starts where he gives up a lot of runs only this time he got no support.

The ball that was foul was hit hard like all the rest of the hits he gave up.

As to your point about Citizen's bank being a launching pad: ERA and WHIP at home: 4.21 and 1.50. ERA and WHIP on the road: 4.80 and 1.56. Meaning it aint just the park big guy.


Listen, I don't think Milton is that great of a pitcher, but you have to use realistic arguments. When you say that someone crushed a foul ball and that makes him a bad pitcher, that's a dumb argument. Using the home/away split, that's good. Saying that he had 11 starts with 3ER or less (5 starts with 1ER or less), that's good.

And adding on cheap shots, like "big guy" makes you sound like a child. If you want to be taken seriously, don't do that.
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Postby JOEG » Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:17 pm

Damn I argree with you but it's hard to take you serious with that 4 year old as you avatar!!!! :-B
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Postby perlick29 » Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:18 pm

My argument wasn't that the foul ball bad him a bad pitcher, it was that he was getting hit hard, and that foul ball was hit hard.

I suppose way to throw up a strawman is a comment that is acceptable. The tone of your posts seem to reflect hostility as in "don't ever make cases on one outing. It seems thats what you are doing here. Everyone bashed Santana early in the year and what happened? Every praised Zito before the season and what happened? 9 hits in 6.2 isn't that bad considering one hit was false."

To me, that's offending because your telling me how and how not to make an argument even though I wasn't making the argument you thought I was. That's why I used big guy because I was legit. upset about your tone of post. Nonetheless, it should end here. No need for us to continue to quarrel unless we can stay civilized. Like here's a nice stat: opp BA at home: .265. opp BA away: .293

He's a replacement level pitcher and certainly not worthy of being an all-star which is why i'm happy MLB got one right.
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????

Postby JOEG » Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:25 pm

Replacement level pitcher???? now thats going overboard

The guy has 11 friken wins!! The way i look at is in 8 games his ERA is 3 something or under which is great and puts your team in a spot to win. That right there eliminates the replacement pitcher name.

All in all he is more deserving the TOm Gordon, Jason Giambi, and a few others
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