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COMBINED---Prior's scoring change

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Postby AcidRock23 » Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:46 pm

Thanks for clarifying that!! I still I figured there was something like that but I went to bed thinking 'damn, no ER? I'm going to trade for his magic butt first thing in the AM' then saw the notes [here!!] this AM that he'd gotten tagged w/ 4 runs which didn't quite square w/ my recollection.

FWIW (not much apparently...), the Yahoo Box score ( http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore?gid=240706108) still says Counsell reached on an error so I think that 3 ER and one R on top of it is the most accurate statistical representation of what happened.

I thought one of the interesting parts of Moneyball was where they recounted how the guy who 'invented' the stats to which we are addicted was a Victorian who felt obligated to include morality in the stats. Unfortunately, there's no way to exclude stupidity from scorers!!


matmat wrote:
AcidRock23 wrote:
I'd always thought that a runner who got on on an E was not an earned run.


he isn't. but counsell didn't get on on an error. he reached base on a single and the runner from third scored on the throwing error. Had there not been an error the runner would have scored anyway because of the hits that came after counsell. This is why all the runs are earned, because they would have scored anyway had the error not occured.
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Postby matmat » Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:51 pm

AcidRock23 wrote:Thanks for clarifying that!! I still I figured there was something like that but I went to bed thinking 'damn, no ER? I'm going to trade for his magic butt first thing in the AM' then saw the notes [here!!] this AM that he'd gotten tagged w/ 4 runs which didn't quite square w/ my recollection.

FWIW (not much apparently...), the Yahoo Box score ( http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore?gid=240706108) still says Counsell reached on an error so I think that 3 ER and one R on top of it is the most accurate statistical representation of what happened.

I thought one of the interesting parts of Moneyball was where they recounted how the guy who 'invented' the stats to which we are addicted was a Victorian who felt obligated to include morality in the stats. Unfortunately, there's no way to exclude stupidity from scorers!!


mlb.com reports it as a hit and an error allowing the run to score. since he reached on a hit, it's 4ER.

had counsell reached on an error, there would be no earned runs as there were already 2 outs in the inning and so that should have been the third, hence the pitcher would have been out of the inning and the runs should not be his responsibility.
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Postby hybrid » Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:55 pm

The runner was on 2nd base, when he had the so called bunt "single". The runner scored from 2nd scored on the throwing error, to me that seems like an un-earned run right there.

But to make such a decision (whether it would have been 3or 4 ER's) that he would of beat out the throw on a good one from the 3B to me isn't right at all. You don't change a call like that after the game, what did it change except Prior's ERA and WHIP? Nothing at all.

I think he was going up against someone who had Prior in Fantasy baseball and realized it after the game was over. :-?
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Postby AcidRock23 » Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:28 pm

Ok, it's coming to me now, from what I saw, Counsell's single should have been an E. That's where I'm getting that. Re the scorer, I think that they jumped too quick to call those unearned runs which, unsuprisingly, the announcers got out quickly as well.

Does anybody have any ideas how they do that sort of review and change to switch the runs? I'm kind of curious as it seemed so odd.

Re the who I'm playing, I'm not playing Prior's team, just Schmidt was going for my opponent last night but I had Santan and Ortiz so I'm doing ok...

hybrid wrote:The runner was on 2nd base, when he had the so called bunt "single". The runner scored from 2nd scored on the throwing error, to me that seems like an un-earned run right there.

But to make such a decision (whether it would have been 3or 4 ER's) that he would of beat out the throw on a good one from the 3B to me isn't right at all. You don't change a call like that after the game, what did it change except Prior's ERA and WHIP? Nothing at all.

I think he was going up against someone who had Prior in Fantasy baseball and realized it after the game was over. :-?
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Postby matmat » Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:33 pm

hybrid wrote:The runner was on 2nd base, when he had the so called bunt "single". The runner scored from 2nd scored on the throwing error, to me that seems like an un-earned run right there.


no
had there been no error (and runner reached on hit, like he was scored anyway) then there would have been runners on first and third. The subsequent double would have scored both runners, hence the run would have scored anyway --> earned run. this really isn't that complicated.
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Postby hybrid » Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:37 pm

matmat wrote:
hybrid wrote:The runner was on 2nd base, when he had the so called bunt "single". The runner scored from 2nd scored on the throwing error, to me that seems like an un-earned run right there.


no
had there been no error (and runner reached on hit, like he was scored anyway) then there would have been runners on first and third. The subsequent double would have scored both runners, hence the run would have scored anyway --> earned run. this really isn't that complicated.


I know what your saying, but if there wasn't an error then the guy would of been out ( though I know the scorer changed it to a single ). I'm just saying the 1st guy scored on an error. I understand that there is prolly something in the rule book that stats otherwise.
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Prior's ERA changed to 4.00...it was too good to be true

Postby NZF » Thu Jul 08, 2004 3:27 am

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=f ... &type=lgns


Very pleased to see no earned runs against Prior yesterday but thought it was too good to be true :~(
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Postby Hey » Thu Jul 08, 2004 3:30 am

So sad...also sad that my Cubs got swept by the Brew Crew :~(
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Postby Madison » Thu Jul 08, 2004 3:31 am

I combined the three threads about this. :-/
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Postby NZF » Thu Jul 08, 2004 3:41 am

Madison wrote:I combined the three threads about this. :-/


Us Kiwis are always the last to hear the latest gossip :-t

See the disadvantage we are up against playing against all you Nth Americans :-D

Makes me wonder why I always win my leagues ;-7
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