Carl Crawford - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Carl Crawford

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Postby NZF » Thu Jul 08, 2004 3:47 am

Madison wrote:
New Zealand Fan wrote:Ahh, now I understand, you're clutching at straws :-D

Well good luck with that and at seasons end we shall see but with the facts in front of me meaning I don't need to clutch at those straws, everything points to a significant difference in average ;-)


Grasping at straws? Who are you kidding?

Ok then, show me some facts that show Crawford will out average Beltran by 30 points in the second half.


I thought I did that very well in an earlier post.
Last edited by NZF on Thu Jul 08, 2004 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When you're right no one remembers, when you're wrong no one forgets - NZF
NZF
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Mock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 4795
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Sitting in the Cake Tin enjoying a cold Speights

Postby Madison » Thu Jul 08, 2004 3:52 am

Here, I'll do some of the research for you:

Career averages:

Beltran: .287
Crawford: .283

This year:

Beltran: .276
Crawford: .304

Between knowing he would be traded, having to move to a new city, switching leagues, and the fact that he cannot play in the All-Star game, there should be no surprise that his average is a bit off so far this year. Once the break is over, he will get back on track.

Just for the record, I've never really been a big fan of Beltran, but when someone thinks Carl Crawford will out hit him by 30 points, I tend to say something. ;-)
Yes doctor, I am sick.
Sick of those who are spineless.
Sick of those who feel self-entitled.
Sick of those who are hypocrites.
Yes doctor, an army is forming.
Yes doctor, there will be a war.
Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
Madison
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
ExecutiveEditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe SpotterInnovative MemberCafe MusketeerPick 3 ChampionMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 53856
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Taking Souls...

Postby j5mikey » Thu Jul 08, 2004 4:02 am

id rather have crawford, as ridiculous as it is.

saying that theres nothing to base crawford winning the AVG category over beltran is incorrect.

none of us can predict second halfs, no matter what the past says, so all we have is the season to date stats where crawford wins.

im not saying that id draft crawford 5th pick and beltran 5th round but i would, at this point in time, play crawford over beltran if i had to make a "one or the other" choice.
j5mikey
College Coach
College Coach

User avatar

Posts: 275
Joined: 29 May 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby Big Sexy » Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:04 am

Who would have thought at the beginning of the season that this topic would even be worthy of discussion? This is part of what makes this game so awesome. Before the season this is a no-brainer. Now, I would have to give serious thought based on which categories I needed. If I had to choose which one would put up better numbers in the 2nd half (5x5), I would have to take Beltran. But it's very close.
"Live well, this is not a rehersal"
Big Sexy
College Coach
College Coach

User avatar

Posts: 264
Joined: 2 Apr 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby NZF » Thu Jul 08, 2004 3:59 pm

Madison wrote:Here, I'll do some of the research for you:



As I said I've already done that in an earlier post but since you obviously missed it I'll repeat my masterpiece for you :-)

There should be no conjecture here at all. Fact: Crawford to date this season is a more valuable OF than Beltran in 5 x 5.

Crawford $ 39 Beltran $ 33

Therefore on the surface to say Crawford is not worth Beltran is an opinion not based on fact but based (I can only presume) on projected numbers for the remainder of the season.

Beltran has just moved leagues, is hitting only .262 since he moved leagues, and is only a.287 career hitter anyway. His power numbers are way up this year on anything he has done previously so I would expect that to continue, but it is obviously having an adverse effect on his batting average, that is understandable and not uncommon.


The likely 30 point difference in average between the two is one thing, the projected lack of steals going forward from Beltran is another. Just 1 attempt in 11 games so far with the NL.

Both Crawford's increased power and plate discipline has been significant this season and that can only get better given his ridiculously young age for someone with over 1200 AB's in the big leagues.

With the expected drop in steals, Beltran is no more valuable now than someone like Abreu.

There is no doubt that an OF that can steal 70 plus bases is equivalent to a power OF that could hit 80 plus HR's. The fact that the guy is also a legit .300 plus hitter and has a slg % similar to Bernie Williams, Carlos Lee and Geoff Jenkins absolutely seals the deal in my mind.

I know it is hard to fathom, but Carl Crawford is more valuable than Carlos Beltran and that difference in value as I see it, will only grow larger.
When you're right no one remembers, when you're wrong no one forgets - NZF
NZF
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Mock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 4795
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Sitting in the Cake Tin enjoying a cold Speights

Postby INeedaFavoriteTeam » Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:39 pm

There is no doubt that an OF that can steal 70 plus bases is equivalent to a power OF that could hit 80 plus HR's. The fact that the guy is also a legit .300 plus hitter and has a slg % similar to Bernie Williams, Carlos Lee and Geoff Jenkins absolutely seals the deal in my mind.


Not to mean to be picky or anything, but that's some serious flawed logic. A homerun gets you at least a HR, a RBI, a RUN and an increase in avg, but a SB only gets you an increase in SB, no RBI, no HR, and maybe a slight increase in percentage in RUN. Also, guys that are frequently stealing bases are usually more prone to injury for obvious reasons....[/quote]
INeedaFavoriteTeam
Softball Supervisor
Softball Supervisor


Posts: 50
Joined: 11 Apr 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby LBJackal » Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:48 pm

New Zealand Fan wrote:There should be no conjecture here at all. Fact: Crawford to date this season is a more valuable OF than Beltran in 5 x 5.

Crawford $ 39 Beltran $ 33

Therefore on the surface to say Crawford is not worth Beltran is an opinion not based on fact but based (I can only presume) on projected numbers for the remainder of the season.


If you read my previous post, you'd see why this is not the only reason. Even at their current pace, Beltran will be more valuable, since the replacement cost of SB's is so low.
Image

"Jack, will you call me, if you're able?"

"I've got your phone number written, in the back of my Bible."
LBJackal
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Pick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 9196
Joined: 1 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The Hotel Yorba

Postby EricF » Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:00 am

I'm glad I don't have to make this decision. I have both Crawford and Beltran, and am leading the SB category. I'm not doing well in other offensive categories, and I had several recent trade offers from a competitor who really wanted Crawford. I rejected them all.

Berkman for Crawford.
Berkman and Paul Wilson for Crawford.
Berkman and Penny for Crawford.

Am I crazy? Before the season I would have made the trade in a heartbeat. But over the past month, Crawford even has more home runs than Berkman!
EricF
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar

Posts: 471
Joined: 3 Jan 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby NZF » Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:34 am

LBJackal wrote:If you read my previous post, you'd see why this is not the only reason. Even at their current pace, Beltran will be more valuable, since the replacement cost of SB's is so low.



Disagree totally with this. It's the HR replacement that is low. Sure, guys like Sanchez and Roberts were available in the late rounds of drafts this season, but who is going to take a risk on them any earlier when they have the potential to hurt you in other categories. What makes Crawford so special is that he will help you to dominate or be very competitive in a category and will not hurt you in any others. Since Sanchez is hitting for average this season and playing a lot more vs lefties, he will like Pods this year, go much earlier in drafts in 2005. Any guy that can make a difference in the SB cat. is long gone. There are plenty readily available who can help you in HR's.
When you're right no one remembers, when you're wrong no one forgets - NZF
NZF
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Mock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 4795
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Sitting in the Cake Tin enjoying a cold Speights

Postby Madison » Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:46 am

Let's take a look at something:

Pierre last year:

.305-1-41 with 100 runs and 65 steals.

Crawford this year:

.302-4-34 with 61 runs and 38 steals. Now even if he continues this great season (notice I gave him some credit there), his final numbers would be:

.302-8-68 with 122 runs and 76 steals.

Is that first round material? Not to me. Pierre is capable of doing the exact same thing (minus the 8 homers). Yes, Crawford is very valuable, but he's not a first round pick just yet.
Yes doctor, I am sick.
Sick of those who are spineless.
Sick of those who feel self-entitled.
Sick of those who are hypocrites.
Yes doctor, an army is forming.
Yes doctor, there will be a war.
Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
Madison
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
ExecutiveEditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe SpotterInnovative MemberCafe MusketeerPick 3 ChampionMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 53856
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Taking Souls...

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ballaxomiafef and 6 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact