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Scott Rolen called the Best player in the game

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Postby ajgnydc722 » Mon Jul 05, 2004 9:21 pm

biju wrote:
Tavish wrote:There isn't a wide gap between Rolen and Chavez in any department, but Rolen has the edge in all of them. Power and speed they are about equal, but Rolen is the better overall hitter in terms of average, obp, slg, and (consequently) ops. Rolen is arguably the best defensive 3B in the game while Chavez is in the top 5. Again there is not a big margin but Rolen is the better player. As far as upside the age difference isn't even all that great in Chavez's favor, he is only about 2 1/2 years younger.

Rolen isn't the best player in baseball right now, but he is the best 3B.


I'm probably going to get slapped into next week for this, but talking from a non-fantasy perspective (and probably not from a money perspective either) I still would rather have A-Rod.

Now if you're talking bang for your buck, Rolen is probably the man.


Rolen is the best 3B right NOW. Right now meaning July 5th. Overall, A-Rod is obviously the better player and Chavez is up there too.

Just because Rolen is playing the best NOW doesn't nessicarily mean he's the best player in baseball. Again, Carlos Guillen is playing great, does that mean he's better than Jeter, Nomar and Tejada? Of course not. Same thing with Rolen only he's alot closer to the pack than the likes of Guillen.
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Postby thetongueofire » Mon Jul 05, 2004 11:46 pm

ok. lets do this little hypothetical activity in our respective tiny little useless fantasy baseball obsessed heads-

a couple of years from now, when hes in his absolute prime, take Chavez outta Oakland and put him in a good hitters park in a division where all of the parks are HR friendly. add in Pujols-Edmonds quality protection for good measure.

not taking even a tiny bit away from Rolen, can you imagine how good numbers he might produce? i sure as hell can... :-)
[size=10]Manny Ramirez....$20 million
Pedro Martinez....$17.5 million
Curt Schilling...$12 million (and a $2 million bonus)
Never hearing a Yankee fan chant 1918 again...priceless. [/size]
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Postby thetongueofire » Mon Jul 05, 2004 11:48 pm

add to that the fact that he finally appeared to have lefties figured out. something that has been his achilies heel throughout his career... and the key to him being a superstar and a much more accomplished hitter according to numerous scouts... :-°
[size=10]Manny Ramirez....$20 million
Pedro Martinez....$17.5 million
Curt Schilling...$12 million (and a $2 million bonus)
Never hearing a Yankee fan chant 1918 again...priceless. [/size]
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Postby GSes » Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:46 am

thetongueofire wrote:add to that the fact that he finally appeared to have lefties figured out. something that has been his achilies heel throughout his career... and the key to him being a superstar and a much more accomplished hitter according to numerous scouts... :-°


yup and many scouts said in the last couple years that the hitter with the most potental and skill raw power, etc etc. under the age of 25 (this was last season)

1. Pujols
2. Chavez

many scouts belive that chavez will develop into a 40+ HR guy. Before he got hurt he was finnally hitting lefties and by some fluke he was not hitting righties, when he comes back expect an mvp like 2nd half as he carries the a's to the AL west.

Chavez is still developing, he is one of the rising stars and still a 3rd round pick next season.
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Postby j5mikey » Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:58 am

I dont think i understand ajgnydc722

As of "NOW" july 5th, if rolen is the best player in baseball, how is he not the best player in baseball?

im no rolen fan by any means, but when a guy is probably second or third best defensive third baseman EVER (And many, many people have argued this) and is having an offensive year that is almost unrivaled, how is he not the best player in baseball?

im not saying id take him over this or that guy, but i certainly wont argue him being the best player in baseball.
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Postby Tavish » Tue Jul 06, 2004 8:50 am

thetongueofire wrote:ok. lets do this little hypothetical activity in our respective tiny little useless fantasy baseball obsessed heads-

a couple of years from now, when hes in his absolute prime, take Chavez outta Oakland and put him in a good hitters park in a division where all of the parks are HR friendly. add in Pujols-Edmonds quality protection for good measure.

not taking even a tiny bit away from Rolen, can you imagine how good numbers he might produce? i sure as hell can... :-)

Putting him in Rolen's situation a couple years down the road? I could see him hitting 40 HR 120 RBI around .320. Which is basically what Rolen is right now, and Rolen would still be the better defensive player. Rolen's protection in Philly wasn't exactly top-notch during his tenure there.

I am not trying to knock Chavez at all, but Rolen is and has been an absoulte stud. Maybe Chavez will explode and over take him in the years to come, but right now Rolen is the premier 3B.

All of this is with a grain of salt considering A-Rod. I have trouble considering him a 3B still, he needs to at least play a full season at the position for me to start reordering my thinking. Those who are want to call him a 3B simply take the Rolen/Chavez argument as a battle for second best. ;-D
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Postby Sunspot » Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:14 am

[quote="ajgnydc722"]First of all the Cards don't have the best record in the bigs, the Yanks do. ;-D

First of all, he said best record in the NL, so sorry, your Yankees don't qualify there.

You all have to remember that Real Baseball and Fantasy Baseball are two totally seperate things. In fantasy land we don't get points for amazing defensive plays (how about points for web gems!) or for leadership or community work, so someone who is a complete jerkoff, clubhouse cancer, and terrible defensive player could concievably be the best fantasy baseball player in the game. Now in real baseball, all those things count almost as much as the offensive performance of these guys. When you look at Offense, Leadership, Personality, and Defense, these are the things that I would consider when picking the best player in the game.
Now with that said: I believe the question was about the best player in the game TODAY. So now we have to throw out consistancy from year to year along with expectations. For instance, A-Rod could be and has the potential to be the best player in the game today, but today means now and right now he isn't. Bonds has been consistantly one of the best in the game, but TODAY he isn't. Puojols is not the best TODAY. To me TODAY means everything so far to this point in the season. When I sit here and think about who my vote is for the best player in the game today, I really have to give my vote to Scott Rolen. Between those spectacular plays he makes at the hot corner, those clutch RBI's, his leadership of his team that is in first place, and his all out hard work that really wears off on the rest of the team, Scott Rolen at THIS POINT, THIS SEASON is producing the best all around season of anyone in baseball. IMO of coarse ;-)
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Postby ajgnydc722 » Tue Jul 06, 2004 11:16 am

Sunspot wrote:
ajgnydc722 wrote:First of all the Cards don't have the best record in the bigs, the Yanks do. ;-D


First of all, he said best record in the NL, so sorry, your Yankees don't qualify there.


Actually it did say the bigs, he must have edited it. ;-D
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Postby KULCAT » Tue Jul 06, 2004 11:32 am

ajgnydc722 wrote:First of all the Cards don't have the best record in the bigs, the Yanks do. ;-D

IMy friend is a Ranger fan an insists that the Ranger infield is better than the Yankee infield just because Young and Texiera have better stats than Jeter and Giambi right NOW on July 5th. No surprise you like Chavez over Rolen, though. :-D[/quote
]

The Rangers do have a better infield than the Yanks because the Rangers have Soriano at second and the yankees have Wilson/Cairo. Thats a big gap righ there

By the way Scott Rolen has been the best baseball player in 2004
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Postby ajgnydc722 » Tue Jul 06, 2004 11:35 am

I'm not going to hijack this thread because there's an interesting debate going on but Texas needs to play better for more than a few months before I say that Texiera, Young and Blalock is better than A-Rod, Giambi and Jeter.

It's a confusing subject about the best player in the game. I like to say Scott Rolen is playing the best right now. Not that he's the best player, because he isn't. If Scott Rolen won the Triple Crown this year, it doesn't mean you'd want him on your team over Pujols, A-Rod or Vlad. It's just that he's playing the best right now. Anyway, that's my view on it.
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