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New leadoff for Marlins?

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New leadoff for Marlins?

Postby ensanimal » Mon Jul 05, 2004 3:29 pm

Thought this was funny...

From Rotoworld:

Hee Seop Choi - 1B - Marlins Buy Marlins Tickets


Manager Jack McKeon has given some thought to using Hee Seop Choi in the leadoff spot.
McKeon's a smart baseball man, and Choi does lead the team in OBP, but he just needs to settle for a happy medium here. It's true that Choi is being wasted hitting seventh, but neither does he belong atop an order with Juan Pierre and Luis Castillo on the team. Fifth would be good. Jul. 5 - 9:02 am et
Source: Miami Herald


is mckeon forgetting to take his medication :-?
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Postby LBJackal » Mon Jul 05, 2004 3:56 pm

Sounds like he's tryign to be Billy Beane. Strange, because 2 undeserving Marlins teams have won a WS in the past decade, while Beane hasn't done a thing with his "moneyball" tactic.
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Postby CubsFan7724 » Mon Jul 05, 2004 4:01 pm

Why is everyone so fascinated with this Moneyball anyways? The furthest its taken the As is the division series, where they lose to higher payroll teams like the BoSox and the Yankees. I mean it isn't like Gods plan to baseball or anything, they haven't even won a World Series. I think if he hadnt gotten those 3 great pitchers to pan out the A's would be wallowing in the bottom of the division. Though the division series isn't bad with a small payroll, the Marlins have won 2 world series with a small payroll.
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Postby jpbusta » Mon Jul 05, 2004 6:10 pm

Pierre + Castillo lead off duo is arguably one of the best leadoff in the league. Choi would fit in nicely at 5th after Lowell and Cabrera though. He takes a lot of walks these adays but can anyone batting after him drive him in? :-D
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Postby T bleep O » Mon Jul 05, 2004 6:49 pm

why not try it, they got nothing to lose here maybe it will give them a different look that no one will know how to handle.
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Postby beltrans_boy » Mon Jul 05, 2004 7:35 pm

CubsFan7724 wrote:Why is everyone so fascinated with this Moneyball anyways? The furthest its taken the As is the division series, where they lose to higher payroll teams like the BoSox and the Yankees. I mean it isn't like Gods plan to baseball or anything, they haven't even won a World Series. I think if he hadnt gotten those 3 great pitchers to pan out the A's would be wallowing in the bottom of the division. Though the division series isn't bad with a small payroll, the Marlins have won 2 world series with a small payroll.


The fact that the A's even compete with the likes of the Red Sox and the Yankees is incredible. And let's not forget how close they've come to vanquishing both of those teams. The playoffs (especially the DS) are largely luck. The Moneyball strategy works over an extended period of time. It's not going to work every time (or even most of the time) in a 5-game series with a powerhouse like the Red Sox.

That being said, the Moneyball strategy is a revolutionary statistical interpretation, and it works. Billy Beane and Paul DePodesta did something very special in Oakland, and it's only a matter of time before it pans out.
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Postby mtarail » Mon Jul 05, 2004 11:37 pm

Not to get completely off topic on Hee-Sop, but.....

Although the Moneyball strategy may be effective let's face it. The reason the A's have been successful is due to a farm system that has pumped out some ridiculously dominant pitchers over the last few years. If the A's pitching was any weaker the team wouldn't even make it to the 1st round of the playoffs to make a brief appearance.
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Postby thehat » Mon Jul 05, 2004 11:56 pm

CubsFan7724 wrote:Why is everyone so fascinated with this Moneyball anyways? The furthest its taken the As is the division series, where they lose to higher payroll teams like the BoSox and the Yankees. I mean it isn't like Gods plan to baseball or anything, they haven't even won a World Series. I think if he hadnt gotten those 3 great pitchers to pan out the A's would be wallowing in the bottom of the division. Though the division series isn't bad with a small payroll, the Marlins have won 2 world series with a small payroll.


I sure couldn't be more in line with you on this one, Cubs! While there are certain Moneyball philosophies I'm in line with, I find that many of the principals are flawed at best, particularly in terms of game management. I'll agree that the theories may indeed be helpful in helping a team with budgetary restrictions field a competitive squad, but aside from that I'm not sold. Nor do I expect to be anytime soon, but I'll keep an open mind.
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Postby Amazinz » Tue Jul 06, 2004 12:07 am

I disagree that Moneyball principles are fundamentally flawed. I think what is flawed is the belief that these principles can be applied in a vacuum. I imagine that there are so many dynamics involved with fielding a quality MLB team that basing all of your decisions on statistical analysis is a bad strategy.
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Postby perlick29 » Tue Jul 06, 2004 12:12 am

I fully expect everyone's minds to be changed this year.

Well written Beltran's Boy it was what I was going to say that over a short period of time it boils down to sheer luck like Jeter making the flip that Durazo didn't slide on, or Derek lowe throwing the best pitch he'd every thrown to the worst hitter the A's had in Terrence Long.

The moneyball strategy does work. All the hard-nosed oldschool baseball people in the MLB need to stop feeling threatened by this successful way of operating. Everyone is baseball is rooting for the A's to fail so they can say haha Billy Beane's plan doesn't work. But if they win, they'll say it was a fluke. The MoneyBall stratgies are destined for success and I suggest people get used to the Dodgers A's Red Sox and Blue Jays being in competition for years to come.

I heard someone say that the A's find ways to groom their pitchers in the minors better or something but that's not really it. They are just looking for pitchers that get outs, and find guys who other teams pass on beacuse the baseball scouts don't like them. Hudson was said to be too small, he doesn't strike out enough guys. Zito didn't throw hard enough. Bradford is too much of a trickster so his stuff wouldn't work. Only Mulder was well-polished and a can't miss. Fact is yes, the A's have had a lot of good pitchers come through their systems but they find the diamond in the rough better than anyone else in baseball.
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