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great players on lousy teams. (answered)

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great players on lousy teams. (answered)

Postby utterchaos » Tue Jun 29, 2004 4:02 pm

Three teams with 4 eventual Hall of Famers have lost 100 or more games. The 1892 Baltimore Orioles (Wilber Robinson, Ned Hanlon, John McGraw and Joe Kelley) and the 1917 Pittsburgh Pirates (Honus Wagner, George Kelly, Burleigh Grimes, and Max Carey) were two of them.

What was the 3rd team to do this and who were the 4 players that would eventually make the Hall of Fame?
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Postby dfishyjr » Wed Jun 30, 2004 8:35 pm

The Mets first year I think it was 1960.
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Postby kaz » Wed Jun 30, 2004 8:59 pm

The 62 Mets
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Postby utterchaos » Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:17 pm

Nope. It wasn't the Mets and it was later than 1962. And don't forget to name the players.
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Postby ukrneal » Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:14 am

Super question. I think the way to go about figuring it out is not trying to remember the year or team, but approaching from the players. That said, more recent teams (Marlins, Devil Rays) can be scratched off the list.

It's hard to even think of cases of bad teams that had even three HOF players. Initially, I kept trying to piece it through with Phil Niekro, Sutton, Ryan, or Winfield, because they played so long and on so many teams. I was stuck on the Orioles for a while. Murrey and Ripkin played together, but I couldn;t place them on a team losing 100. Besides, who else played with them? Was Palmer still around then - I just can't remember anymore.

Then, I tried to see if I could Place Mays or McCovey on a losing team and again, no cigar. Brock? Nope. Schmidt and Carlton? Nope. Bench? No. Stargell and Clemente maybe? No dice. Ernie Banks....

Hmm, the Cubs are perrenial losers (that is, they lost a lot). Banks was a great player. Who else did the Cubbies have in those days? Well, I'm pretty sure that Billie Williams is in the HOF and he played a long time with Banks, so that's two. Now, I remember that Ferguson Jenkins won 30 games in the early seventies with the Cubs, but the question is: Was he around in those early days? I'm going to assume yes, since that would make three.

My problem is that I am stuck on 3 and can't think of a 4th. I also don;t have a clue as to what year it would have been. Leo Durocher was probably the coach, I know he coached them for several years in the late 60's (especially '69 when he lost to the Mets). My guess is that it would have been his first year with the team, I just don't remember when that was. Incidentally, he was a hall of famer himself, but I assume you're looking for another player.

So that is where I am stuck. Help would be appreciated. I love these types of questions!
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Postby Andy1234 » Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:16 am

1966 Cubs (59-103)

Hall of Famers

1. Robin Roberts (Inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1976)
2. Ernie Banks (Inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1977)
3. Billy Williams (Inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1987)
4. Fergie Jenkins (Inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1991)<br><br><span class=gensmall>Accepted as answer by utterchaos on Thu Jul 01, 2004 7:31 am EST.</span>
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Postby ukrneal » Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:48 am

Robin Roberts? I thought he played his career with Philly? Must have been his last year or two yes? It's nice to know I was on the right track at least...

Was it Durocher's first year as I speculated?
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Postby Andy1234 » Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:11 am

Roberts played his first 14 seasons with Philly, then the last 5 seaons were split between Bal/Hou/CHC, only the last half season of his career was with the Cubs in 1966 (11 games).

And yes, 1966 was Leo Durocher's first year as the Manager of the Cubs.
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Postby utterchaos » Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:33 am

Andy1234 wrote:1966 Cubs (59-103)

Hall of Famers

1. Robin Roberts (Inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1976)
2. Ernie Banks (Inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1977)
3. Billy Williams (Inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1987)
4. Fergie Jenkins (Inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1991)<br><br><span class=gensmall>Accepted as answer by utterchaos on Thu Jul 01, 2004 7:31 am EST.</span>
Yep, it was the Cubs of 1966. I was watching EPSN's 25 worst teams last week and they should the Orioles when they had Ripken and Murray and that's what got me thinking about this question. I don't know if it helped Andy1234 get the answer or not but I liked the way Ukrneal was thinking.
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Postby ukrneal » Fri Jul 02, 2004 6:05 am

I thought it would be more interesting to put the thought process there, since I wasn't sure if I was right. I figured it might jar someone else's memory.
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