What is a "just cause?" - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to General Talk

What is a "just cause?"

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

What is a "just cause?"

Postby Kingsac » Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:53 pm

With all this talk of the war being a "just cause" I am wondering what is a just cause to deserve war? Would it be invading europe to fight the Germans and stop them from destroying an entire race of people, as well as occupying neutral countries? I would say yes that was a just cause.

What really confuses me is the rational behind the just cuase in Iraq? I am still completly confused! Were we there to destroy and stop the WMD? and if so where are they? Were we there as a pre-emptive strike to stop Hussain from threatening the free world? Were we there to liberate a people from a dictatorship? but then only committ atrocities upon those very same people ourselves? Some people link the Iraqies to the taliban and claim they were responsible in some part to 9/11 yet we have no diffinitve proof, at least that I have heard.

So my question is this: What is the "just cause" for entering and fighting the war in Iraq? And does that cause still present itself as a legitamat threat?

(Though I am not a Bush supporter I am also not a Kerry supporter. I have yet to make up my mind, more than likely i won't vote for either man, as I find them both to be full of shit)
A's all wAyS
Kingsac
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor


Posts: 560
Joined: 25 Mar 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby Flockers » Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:56 pm

JESSE VENTURA FOR PRESIDENT!
Last edited by Flockers on Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
Flockers
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar
Graphics Expert
Posts: 362
Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Home Cafe: Football

Postby Transmogrifier » Tue Jun 29, 2004 1:04 pm

Just War theory is not something people are making up--it's quite well established.

Check out: http://www.iep.utm.edu/j/justwar.htm#The%20<I>Jus%20Ad%20Bellem</I>%20Convention

A sample:

Most theorists hold that initiating acts of aggression is unjust and gives a group a just cause to defend itself. But unless ‘aggression’ is defined, this proscription rather open-ended. For example, just cause resulting from an act of aggression can ostensibly be responses to a physical injury (e.g., a violation of territory), an insult (an aggression against national honor), a trade embargo (an aggression against economic activity), or even to a neighbor’s prosperity (a violation of social justice). The onus is then on the just war theorist to provide a consistent and sound account of what is meant by just cause.
I'm back. Sorta.

Do not boo Johnny.
Transmogrifier
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeSweet 16 Survivor
Posts: 7181
Joined: 17 Apr 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: No taxation without Representation!

Postby Kingsac » Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:17 pm

Trans, by no means do I think that Just Cause is made up, I was simply asking what were the just cause for this particular war?
Bassed on your excerpt it seems it boils down to how you define acts of aggression. Then to re-phrase my original question what were the acts of aggression shown by Iraq to justify a war?
A's all wAyS
Kingsac
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor


Posts: 560
Joined: 25 Mar 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby LionsandTigersOhMy » Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:24 pm

Having relations with Al Qaeda and harboring them!

Invading Kuwait!

Defying the UN for a decade!

Having WMD's

Using WMD's on innocents!
Image
LionsandTigersOhMy
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar

Posts: 798
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Flint, Michigan

Postby matmat » Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:30 pm

LionsandTigersOhMy wrote:Having relations with Al Qaeda and harboring them!

Invading Kuwait!

Defying the UN for a decade!

Having WMD's

Using WMD's on innocents!


please provide a LINK to prove the first, fourth and fifth points.
Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll drown because you forgot to teach him to swim.
[url=http://www.indra.com/8ball/front.html]Invaluable Fantasy Baseball Resource[/url]
matmat
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 4120
Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: North cross down

Postby Kingsac » Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:35 pm

matmat wrote:
LionsandTigersOhMy wrote:Having relations with Al Qaeda and harboring them!

Invading Kuwait!

Defying the UN for a decade!

Having WMD's

Using WMD's on innocents!


please provide a LINK to prove the first, fourth and fifth points.


The US is guilty of all of the above except invading Kuwait.
A's all wAyS
Kingsac
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor


Posts: 560
Joined: 25 Mar 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby matmat » Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:38 pm

Kingsac wrote:The US is guilty of all of the above except invading Kuwait.


that's not true! the US DID invade Kuwait... (at the time it was occupied by Iraq, but it did invade Kuwait).
Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll drown because you forgot to teach him to swim.
[url=http://www.indra.com/8ball/front.html]Invaluable Fantasy Baseball Resource[/url]
matmat
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 4120
Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: North cross down

Postby Transmogrifier » Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:39 pm

Kingsac wrote:
matmat wrote:
LionsandTigersOhMy wrote:Having relations with Al Qaeda and harboring them!

Invading Kuwait!

Defying the UN for a decade!

Having WMD's

Using WMD's on innocents!


please provide a LINK to prove the first, fourth and fifth points.


The US is guilty of all of the above except invading Kuwait.


This is true, save that the U.S. isn't necessarily "harboring terrorists, as it is typically defined--they're here, sure, but we're not protecting them as the Taliban did (but not like Iraq).

It's well known, MatMat that Saddam used chemical weapons on the Kurds.

Put me in the "this was an unjust war" camp.
I'm back. Sorta.

Do not boo Johnny.
Transmogrifier
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeSweet 16 Survivor
Posts: 7181
Joined: 17 Apr 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: No taxation without Representation!

Postby slomo007 » Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:47 pm

Out of curiosity, do all of you who are opposed to the war think that Saddam's regime's torturing of millions of innocent civilians was just? I think the decision to invade Iraq could be supported morally, but I guess maybe I'm alone in that thought. :-o Afterall, we wouldn't want to think about anyone but ourselves and our safety...right?
slomo007
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicEagle Eye
Posts: 11960
Joined: 31 May 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

Next

Return to General Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Wednesday, Sep. 3
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Philadelphia at Atlanta
(12:10 pm)
Pittsburgh at St. Louis
(1:45 pm)
San Francisco at Colorado
(3:10 pm)
Washington at LA Dodgers
(3:10 pm)
Seattle at Oakland
(3:35 pm)
Boston at NY Yankees
(7:05 pm)
Detroit at Cleveland
(7:05 pm)
Cincinnati at Baltimore
(7:05 pm)
NY Mets at Miami
(7:10 pm)
indoors
Toronto at Tampa Bay
(7:10 pm)
indoors
Milwaukee at Chi Cubs
(8:05 pm)
LA Angels at Houston
(8:10 pm)
Texas at Kansas City
(8:10 pm)
Chi White Sox at Minnesota
(8:10 pm)
Arizona at San Diego
(10:05 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact