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Who will have a better Second half?Zito or Loaiza,

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Postby George_Foreman » Sun Jun 27, 2004 8:49 pm

unless your league is super-small, grab him. as an earlier poster said, you'll be hard pressed to find anyone on the ww who's had the kind of success zito had as recently as last year. It's just too much upside to ignore.
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Postby nmarq8 » Sun Jun 27, 2004 9:07 pm

I've been sticking with zito all year and i'll continue to. as for answering the post question, depends on what you need. loaiza will probably get more wins with a higher era and whip in the second half. zito will have lower era, whip, and wins with k's being up. zito hasn't even been all that bad this year. he's certainly been no cy young nominee, but he's pitched well in some games and couldn't get a few breaks in others. there's nothing wrong with the guy, i mean his curveball still curves, so definitely pick him up now and you'll be glad that you did at season's end.
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Postby bruuno2 » Sun Jun 27, 2004 9:17 pm

That is the response i was looking for. ;-D .
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Re: response

Postby athxu » Sun Jun 27, 2004 9:30 pm

bruuno2 wrote:That is the response i was looking for. ;-D .


You mean it's not the mind-numbing Zito bashing/praising that we had been engaged the past 2 months?! Booo!!!

:-D
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Postby bruuno2 » Sun Jun 27, 2004 9:36 pm

Yea..........looks like i stirred up the bees nest,had know idea 8-o. I just wanted to know who i should go with for the second half!Zito or Loaiza. :*)
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Postby Members Only Jackets » Sun Jun 27, 2004 9:37 pm

Zito is capable of a huge turn-around..and for that reason YOU GET HIM NOW. I will stubbornly hold on to Zito (bench for now)...but he's a former cy young winner 2 yrs removed for godsake!
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Postby GSes » Sun Jun 27, 2004 9:48 pm

I could argue Zito would have" outdueled and beat Jason Schmidt Friday night. Zito allowed 1ER in 7IP, Schmidt 2ER thru 8IP (4ER thru 8.1).

Had that error not occured, zito would have gotten a double play inning over play, it would have saved him the 20 pitches or so he threw in the rest of the inning when he gave up the 2 HR's.

From innings 2-7 he pitched wonderfully, allowing just 1ER and getting BONDS to fly out twice. I sat in my seat watching my favorite A's player duel the best player in the game with 2 men on and Zito got Bonds down 0-2, Bonds got the count back to 3-2, and after one of the better superstar vs superstar AB's I have seen in person in a while Zito got the older Barry o fly out.


If you look at Zito game by game, Im going to break it down.

You want to know why Zito had a poort april

he faced in order TEX, TEX, ANA, ANA, NYY, NYY

He got the angels at full health, the rangers at their hot start, and the yanks when they woke up. Even Jason Schmidt and The Unit would not have a pretty month facing those 3 teams back to back 3 times. Who in hell starts the year off with 6 straight starts against 3 of the best hitting teams?


Then in May he did much better
1-0 (no run support)
3.18 ERA
1.26 WHIP
28 K's/34IP


Then in June Zito got to face AT THE TIME
the 1st place Reds (loaded lineup)
the 1st place Cardinals (loaded lineup)
the surging Cubs
the 1st place and ON FIRE Giants

While his fellow teammates Mulder & Hudson got to pitch against the Freakin Pirates. Not to mention while Zito was going against Anaheim and NYY and Texas back to back to back to back to back and so on Mulder & Hudson each got 2 starts vs the loley Mariners. WHY THE HELL DIDNT BARRY GET A COUPLE STARTS VS THE M's..................jesus christ. And on top of that, when he does pitch he either gets no run support, poor bullpen help lack there of, or his defense screws him over (ala Fri nite vs SF), then vs the cubs Dye (gold glover) looses the ball in the sun causing a some ER that wouldn't have happen had he caught the freakin ball.

I honestly think Barry Zito has had the worst luck in matchups and scheduling then any pitcher in the bigs.

In the 2nd half of the season, Barry is going to be lights out.

Career ERA
before the Break: 3.91 ERA 8-o 8-o 8-o
after the break: 2.54 ERA 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o


Definiton of a 2nd half pitcher + easier schedule + a closer in dotel + the return of Gold gloving slugger Eric Chavez not to mention the A's as whole ALWAYS play the best in the 2nd half

=====

Barry Zito 2nd Half Stud

Drop him if you want
Trade him for Matt Riley if you can
Survive your league once he starts rolling, you won't.

and i will be here to shove down everyone's throat, ESPECIALLY LBJACKAL :-D :-D :-D
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Postby athxu » Sun Jun 27, 2004 10:26 pm

I should just let this thread die, but I won't. <img src=/forums/images/smiles/kiss.gif>

GSes wrote:I could argue Zito would have" outdueled and beat Jason Schmidt Friday night. Zito allowed 1ER in 7IP, Schmidt 2ER thru 8IP (4ER thru 8.1).


Now that's being very generous.

From innings 2-7 he pitched wonderfully, allowing just 1ER and getting BONDS to fly out twice. I sat in my seat watching my favorite A's player duel the best player in the game with 2 men on and Zito got Bonds down 0-2, Bonds got the count back to 3-2, and after one of the better superstar vs superstar AB's I have seen in person in a while Zito got the older Barry o fly out.


Barry (THE Barry) may be superman, but even superman still only gets on base about half the time. So Zito tossed 2 fair coins and they both came up heads. Big deal. Matt Riley could've done that half the time...

You want to know why Zito had a poort april


he faced in order TEX, TEX, ANA, ANA, NYY, NYY
Lest you forget, Mulder and Hudson also faced NYY, TEX, and ANA in that month. This ain't basketball. They didn't do great, but they certainly didn't get LIT UP like Zito did. If I wanted to be a hardass about it, I would say that these games are what separates good pitchers from great pitchers.

Again, this is baseball. Great teams lose 1/3 of their games. It's not like the Bulls losing 10 games in the 90s.

Career ERA
before the Break: 3.91 ERA
after the break: 2.54 ERA


This is certainly intriguing. It might well be true that he'll get better. Clearly he's *capable* of playing better. Also, the split is driven mostly by 2002. If you look at 2003, pre: 3.28, post: 3.33. So what happened in 2003? You'll need a bit more than breakdowns of Barry Bonds ABs to explain that.

In the 2nd half of the season, Barry is going to be lights out.


Unless we're talking about THE Barry, I doubt it. Here're my predictions for second half: 3.5 ERA, 1.3 WHIP. A solid starter in any league, but nothing to get excited about. Certainly nothing to write multiple-posts about. :P
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Postby GSes » Sun Jun 27, 2004 10:47 pm

In those 6 starts vs ANA, TEX, NYY

Zito pitched well in the first game vs Tex, bad 2nd time

Zito pitched well in the 1st game vs Ana, bad 2nd game

Zito pitched bad in the 1st game vs NYY, Well in the 2nd game.

I don't know how you would look it up, but I know from my own experiences with pitchers who starts agiants the same team twice within 5 days.

Since the team just saw them, they hit him much better especially when they are great hitting team. Ive seen this trend with EVERY pitcher, back to back starts vs same team is a recipe for disaster.

and Hudson and Mulder didn't face any of these guys back to back in the same week like zito.

Will see what happens, Zito from here on out is going to get about 20 starts.

I think he can go
12 - 4
3.10 ERA
1.10 WHIP
95 K's
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Postby athxu » Sun Jun 27, 2004 11:01 pm

GSes wrote:I don't know how you would look it up, but I know from my own experiences with pitchers who starts agiants the same team twice within 5 days.


Oy vey... now we're really splitting hairs. I'm not saying that he's as bad as his april form suggests. Looking over the year so far, he just hasn't done anything to inspire confidence. He'll be better than he was in April, which is "terrible", and Zito isn't a terrible pitcher.

I think he can go
12 - 4
3.10 ERA
1.10 WHIP
95 K's


I don't see why people try to predict wins, it's such a crapshoot... But you're right, we'll see.
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