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Beltran vs. Abreu??

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Postby YankeeRebel » Sun Jun 20, 2004 2:26 pm

FOr the Andruw Jones Argument.

Jones is a much better hitter when he isnt streaking cold, and as for Center Field, Besides Willy Mays on steroids who else is better then jones in cf right now?
-Ben Affleck, "The Yankees Could have a $240 Million Infield W/O Their Second Baseman"

-Boston Globe, "Damn Yankees. It just never stops with these guys."
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Postby Pokeyouindaeye » Sun Jun 20, 2004 2:29 pm

FatGuyWithAMullet wrote:
LBJackal wrote:
FatGuyWithAMullet wrote:Why are people so obsessed with Beltran? He is so overrated.

People keep talking about "Oh he could go 40-40!", guess what...he's never even gone 30-30 and he ain't getting any younger.

Beltran puts up basically the same numbers as Andruw Jones only Beltran steals 30+ a season.

BELTRAN IS OVERRATED! :~(


Beltran will hit around 290+, Andruw will hit around 270. Beltran will get about 40 more SB's. Beltran will get about 20 more RBI and 20 more R. How you can begin to compare them is beyond me...........


How can I compare them? I already said forget the SB.

Let's compare Beltran of 2002 and Andruw of 2003.

Beltran - .273 - .847 OPS - 29 HR - 105 RBI - 135K - 71 BB - 114 R

Jones - .277 - .851 OPS - 36 HR - 116 RBI - 125K - 53 BB - 101 R

Yes, that is beyond the realm of comparison right there.



I can't believe you did that. This comparison seems beyond the realm of plausibility. Why don't you compare similar years? In 2002, Jones had a .264-35-94-91, with a .878 OPS year, which is worse in comparison to Beltran's 2002. Or better yet, Beltran's year last year, where he hit .307-26-100-102 and had a .911 OPS.
Also, Beltrans, K number dropped last year dramatically, indicating that he's becoming a better hitter, whereas, Jones's stayed exactly the same.

If I were you, I'd pick a wider selection of years, that accounts for all of Jones's down years, and all of Beltrans down years (minus the one with the injury) as well as their good years and see who has been consistently better. That will make your argument more powerful, rather than selecting years that misrepresent their respective players.
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Postby YankeeRebel » Sun Jun 20, 2004 2:36 pm

Im Sorry but until Beltran has to deal with the pressure of fans, Gms,owners and others expecting them to win championships we cant really compare him to abreu or jones, or for that matter vlad.

Beltran is traded to NYY For Halsey or to Boston for Youkilis(spelling?) or possibily LA for god knows who then we can talk.
-Ben Affleck, "The Yankees Could have a $240 Million Infield W/O Their Second Baseman"

-Boston Globe, "Damn Yankees. It just never stops with these guys."
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Postby GucciBaseballs » Sun Jun 20, 2004 2:51 pm

YankeeRebel wrote:Im Sorry but until Beltran has to deal with the pressure of fans, Gms,owners and others expecting them to win championships we cant really compare him to abreu or jones, or for that matter vlad.

Beltran is traded to NYY For Halsey or to Boston for Youkilis(spelling?) or possibily LA for god knows who then we can talk.


Hey buddy, we are talking fantasy baseball not real baseball here. In fantasy baseball a 330 average from Jeter is worth the same as Helton's in colorad0 (assuming they have the same amount of at bats).
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Postby YankeeRebel » Sun Jun 20, 2004 2:58 pm

GucciBaseballs wrote:
YankeeRebel wrote:Im Sorry but until Beltran has to deal with the pressure of fans, Gms,owners and others expecting them to win championships we cant really compare him to abreu or jones, or for that matter vlad.

Beltran is traded to NYY For Halsey or to Boston for Youkilis(spelling?) or possibily LA for god knows who then we can talk.


Hey buddy, we are talking fantasy baseball not real baseball here. In fantasy baseball a 330 average from Jeter is worth the same as Helton's in colorad0 (assuming they have the same amount of at bats).


Its still not fair to compare them unless u dont take that factor into consideration
-Ben Affleck, "The Yankees Could have a $240 Million Infield W/O Their Second Baseman"

-Boston Globe, "Damn Yankees. It just never stops with these guys."
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Postby WhiteHot » Sun Jun 20, 2004 3:00 pm

YankeeRebel wrote:
GucciBaseballs wrote:
YankeeRebel wrote:Im Sorry but until Beltran has to deal with the pressure of fans, Gms,owners and others expecting them to win championships we cant really compare him to abreu or jones, or for that matter vlad.

Beltran is traded to NYY For Halsey or to Boston for Youkilis(spelling?) or possibily LA for god knows who then we can talk.


Hey buddy, we are talking fantasy baseball not real baseball here. In fantasy baseball a 330 average from Jeter is worth the same as Helton's in colorad0 (assuming they have the same amount of at bats).


Its still not fair to compare them unless u dont take that factor into consideration


It's fantasy baseball! PURE NUMBERS. We compare numbers. That is what wins leagues. I could care less if someone has no left arm if he bats .330 and drives in 100+.
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Postby warrick95 » Sun Jun 20, 2004 3:05 pm

First, I'm going to give you my preseason thoughts about them.

If you take a look at Abreu's stats the past few years, his power has been inconsistent at best. He's lingered through a couple of injury problems, which gives you some concern about his SB numbers. The deal with a new park is that nobody has a clue how the park will work for hitters/pitchers until they actually start playing. As you know, Petco has turned out pretty differently than previously expected.

Bob's hit 20 homers per year the past two years. Nobody was counting on him getting 30, which is probable now. In addition, nobody knew how Bowa would run Abreu, if at all. It seems like he's giving him the green light more. He's stolen 14 to 1 CS. I doubt that awesome ratio will continue, if you take a look at his %'s in past years. Still, 25-30 steals is likely.

It's true that Beltran's numbers will be better, but Abreu is (was) probably a better value pick. 30-40 steals over a season is a near-lock for Beltran, while Abreu's steals are much harder to predict, especially since he doesn't bat in as much in a SB position in the lineup as Beltran. The key to their value lies within the power/speed combination. Giving up a few HRs for SBs is a good idea when you're looking for these players, which gives Beltran an obvious edge. You can always gain extra power elsewhere.

One more thing, I'm just amazed that somebody's already talking about Halsley in a package for Beltran after just one good start in the bigs. Come on...can you say overhyped?
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Postby YankeeRebel » Sun Jun 20, 2004 3:31 pm

Can you say Boston Vs New York in April? OverHyped
-Ben Affleck, "The Yankees Could have a $240 Million Infield W/O Their Second Baseman"

-Boston Globe, "Damn Yankees. It just never stops with these guys."
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Postby Spiegs1106 » Sun Jun 20, 2004 4:04 pm

Here is the first five rounds in my draft. My team is team 3...how did I do in comparason to everyone else and what could I have done differently??

Round 1

Team 1 Albert Pulols
Team 2 Alex Rodriguez
Team 3 Vladimir Guerrero
Team 4 Carlos Beltran
Team 5 Barry Bonds
Team 6 Scott Rolen
Team 7 Edgar Renteria

Round 2

Team 7 Jeff Kent
Team 6 Manny Ramirez
Team 5 Jason Schmidt
Team 4 Mark Prior
Team 3 Eric Gagne
Team 2 Todd Helton
Team 1 Alfonso Soriano

Round 3

Team 1 Curt Schilling
Team 2 Roy Oswalt
Team 3 Bobby Abreu
Team 4 Mark Mulder
Team 5 Jim Thome
Team 6 Miguel Tejada
Team 7 A. Ramirez

Round 4

Team 7 Lance Berkman
Team 6 Vernon Wells
Team 5 Gary Sheffield
Team 4 Miguel Cabrera
Team 3 Nomar Garciaparra
Team 2 Pedro Martinez
Team 1 Mike Lowell

Round 5

Team 1 Carlos Delgado
Team 2 Tim Hudson
Team 3 Javier Vasquez
Team 4 Carl Crawford
Team 5 Roy Halladay
Team 6 Carlos Vambrano
Team 7 Mariano Rivera
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Postby GucciBaseballs » Sun Jun 20, 2004 4:27 pm

Spiegs1106 wrote:Here is the first five rounds in my draft. My team is team 3...how did I do in comparason to everyone else and what could I have done differently??

Round 1

Team 1 Albert Pulols
Team 2 Alex Rodriguez
Team 3 Vladimir Guerrero
Team 4 Carlos Beltran
Team 5 Barry Bonds
Team 6 Scott Rolen
Team 7 Edgar Renteria

Round 2

Team 7 Jeff Kent
Team 6 Manny Ramirez
Team 5 Jason Schmidt
Team 4 Mark Prior
Team 3 Eric Gagne
Team 2 Todd Helton
Team 1 Alfonso Soriano

Round 3

Team 1 Curt Schilling
Team 2 Roy Oswalt
Team 3 Bobby Abreu
Team 4 Mark Mulder
Team 5 Jim Thome
Team 6 Miguel Tejada
Team 7 A. Ramirez

Round 4

Team 7 Lance Berkman
Team 6 Vernon Wells
Team 5 Gary Sheffield
Team 4 Miguel Cabrera
Team 3 Nomar Garciaparra
Team 2 Pedro Martinez
Team 1 Mike Lowell

Round 5

Team 1 Carlos Delgado
Team 2 Tim Hudson
Team 3 Javier Vasquez
Team 4 Carl Crawford
Team 5 Roy Halladay
Team 6 Carlos Vambrano
Team 7 Mariano Rivera


why are you posting this here. Stop hijacking :-t
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