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Tim Kurkjian's All-Time CF List

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Postby Lofunzo » Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:26 am

LBJackal wrote:Yeah, I was gonna say, isn't Joltin Joe considered one of the best, or the best CF's ever?


Excellent CF and hitter. Doesn't have the power numbers to get the credit that he deserves but at least Ted gave him his props. ;-)
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Postby Tavish » Thu Jun 17, 2004 12:28 pm

Joe D. was pretty good defensively as well.

Absolutely, everyone in the top 5 were great fielders (Cobb was perhaps only slightly above average), you don't become an all-time great without being good at all aspects of the game. When it comes to the "greatest" defensive centerfielder though, I don't think anyone is in the same class as Speaker and Mays. Mantle will probably post the best raw numbers out of the group, but in comparison to their era Speaker is far and away the most dominate.
Until Mays came along, Speaker held the putout record for an OF and this was while battling for fielding chances with two other all-time great defensive players on each side of him. He still holds the record for assists by an outfielder by a very large margin.
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Postby LCBOY » Thu Jun 17, 2004 3:24 pm

If we are talking purely defense then Richie Ashburn should be part of the discussion...
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Postby frog99 » Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:13 pm

ajgnydc722 wrote:Like I said, I never knew/know alot about baseball history but I also thought Mantle was considered a better player than Mays, or at least equal.



that is because New York Media ALWAYS overvalues Yankee players (Mays finished up in SF). And the NY media liked the Idea of having the three best center feilders of alltime (as they saw it) all playing in NYC. Kinda like putting Jeter in the same class as Nomar and Arod (and debating which is the best, when Arod is undoutbably). MAys was obviously the best and Mantle damn good, while snider was good but still not nearly as good as the other 2.
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Postby Tavish » Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:46 pm

LCBOY wrote:If we are talking purely defense then Richie Ashburn should be part of the discussion...
On simply defense then for sure he would be at or near #1. Although from what I have read/heard he did have a rather weak arm.
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Postby frog99 » Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:52 pm

Tavish wrote:
you don't become an all-time great without being good at all aspects of the game.


Ruth wasn't "great" in the feild neither was Williams, or Hornsby or Piazza. if you can hit good enough you will be called an alltime great. But if you can run and play defense that will make up some if you're Teddy Ballgame.
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Postby ajgnydc722 » Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:27 pm

frog99 wrote:
Tavish wrote:
you don't become an all-time great without being good at all aspects of the game.


Ruth wasn't "great" in the feild neither was Williams, or Hornsby or Piazza. if you can hit good enough you will be called an alltime great. But if you can run and play defense that will make up some if you're Teddy Ballgame.


Again, correct me if I'm wrong but on a local radio station they said Ted Williams was a horrible fielder. Yet he's still ranked so great on all-time lists. I guess he must have been that good of a hitter. :-?
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Postby Tavish » Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:10 am

frog99 wrote:
Tavish wrote:you don't become an all-time great without being good at all aspects of the game.


Ruth wasn't "great" in the feild neither was Williams, or Hornsby or Piazza. if you can hit good enough you will be called an alltime great. But if you can run and play defense that will make up some if you're Teddy Ballgame.


You've taken my comment somewhat out of context by I will go with it. For one thing I didn't claim you had to be "great" defensively to be consider the all-time great, only good (as in not be a burden). This is less of a factor at some positions like 1B where defense really isn't much of a concern. It is a big factor IMO when you talk about positions such as centerfield.
That aside, other than Ruth I don't consider those players (Williams, Horsnby, Piazza) as the greatest at their position. Until the end of his career Ruth was a good fielder ( average to below average in range, but, amazingly enough, had a tremendous arm). Would he still be the greatest right fielder in my mind if he couldn't catch a cold? Probably, but maybe not.
But you are most definitely right that a big bat can makeup for having a poor glove. To be the best though I think a player has to be good at every aspect and great at in quite a few.
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Postby Lofunzo » Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:42 am

2 things to consider:

1. Williams was that good of a hitter.
2. Ruth won 94/140 decisions as a pitcher.
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Postby LCBOY » Tue Jun 22, 2004 2:55 pm

It shouldn't be a suprise that Ruth had a tremendous arm. He was a pitcher, also. Pitchers have stronger arms that outfielders...
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