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Biggio Poll

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Postby Sam Handwich » Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:26 am

he's in for sure, but who hates biggio?
There is no "I" in team but there are two "I"s in statistics - oh, there are also a few "tits" in there also.
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Postby DK » Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:20 pm

Poll:

For-Amazinz, Mikcou, CrazyPooja90, Tavish, DK, DMXdawg, Urge, slomo007, ajgnydc722, Ridgerunner, swingaway, Sam Handwich (12)
Against- Melo255, WhiteHot, Crip, thehat, wkelly91 (5)
Undecided/There's a case- Quaker (The Peacekeeper... ), Lofunzo (2)
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Postby SaintsOfTheDiamond » Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:32 pm

Quaker wrote:I think it's really close. Obviously, if he had been an OF his entire career those numbers wouldn't hold up, but they stack up against other 2bs. And remember, he was also a catcher for 3 seasons (he was an all-star at C in 91). 4 time GG at 2b, 7 time all-star. I definitely think there's a case.


I think that is dead on. Because he has played 3 positions, and all very well as evidenced by Gold Gloves and AS appearences, and by the fact that he moved to the OF so late in his career, he is HOF material IMO. If he had played only 2B he would still stack up pretty well with most 2B in history. So I say definitely. ;-D And something else about the HOF that bothers me is that longevity is usually just glossed over most times. The arguement against some players being in is "...well he played for a long time, but was never a superstar...". That makes no sense to me. If you can play good enough to be on a big league roster for 15 years but you may not rewrite the history books, that's just as impressive to me. :-?
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Postby d18Mike » Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:00 pm

Much I'm sure to his personal displeasure, Bill James does not personally select who is inducted, but as you all have probably read/heard that he ranks Biggio as better than Ken Griffey and almost every other 1990s player statistically.

Here's how James rates the Top 10 2Bmen of all time. Remember, folks -- his rankings -- not mine.

1. Joe Morgan
2. Eddie Collins
3. Rogers Hornsby
4. Jackie Robinson
5. Craig Biggio
6. Nap Lajoie
7. Ryne Sandberg
8. Charlie Gehringer
9. Rod Carew
10. Roberto Alomar

He places Biggio ahead of 12 other HOFers at the position.

He calls Biggio the best Little Stats (sac flies, sac hits, IWs, HBP, not GIDP) player in the history of baseball. These account in some years for roughly .100 points of batting averge.

James analysis has changed the way we see the game. And the way that many teams operate. It's hard to see the voters ignoring this analysis.

Also, come on ... if Biggio played in New York, we wouldn't even have this thread.
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Postby LCBOY » Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:07 pm

Melo255 wrote:I can't see him making it. The hall of fame is for superstars with mammoth numbers and dominant years. Biggio was a good player for a long time but good isn't great and great isn't even enough. To make the hall you have to be one of the elite players in the game consistently. Biggio was good but he was never one of the elite. He never hit more than 22 home runs in a season, hit 20-22 home runs only 5 times, never hit more than 88 rbis in a season, has only a career batting average of .287. I understand a lot of people think his runs, steals and defense make him hall worthy but IMO it just lets him get mentioned. Longetivity is great but I just believe that 20 good years dont equal 14 elite ones especially when overall power numbers leave him way back in the dust. Just my opinion.


Biggio not an elite player? Biggio was

1) a leadoff hitter
2) a 2B


You must compare him to other leadoff men and 2B. Historically, he compares extremely well. Biggio in his prime had diverse skills. He wasn't a specialist like Mark McGwire or Tony Gywnn. People tend to overrate players that do ONE thing EXTREMELY well, like Mac and Gywnn, over players like Biggio and Rickey Henderson who have diverse skills. Soneone said Biggio is a solid player. Solid players don't score 146 runs or hit 56 doubles in a season.

He's definitely one of the top 10 greatest 2B in history...
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Postby thetongueofire » Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:10 pm

Biggio's biggest achievement- 2nd (likely 1st by the time he retires) all-time in HBP :-D

anyways.. i think he does all the lil stuff and id let him in but im not completely sure. also gotta say that his ability to be an AS at two of the toughest positions is very unique.
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Postby BronsonPinchot » Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:19 pm

I can't believe that there are people replying to this post that don't think Biggio will make the hall of fame. He is a lock. Without a doubt. Its not even close. To think otherwise is comically inane. A better question would be: will Craig Biggio reach 3,000 hits? He could probably get there in three or four more years. Will he last that long?
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Postby wkelly91 » Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:27 pm

Does Biggio belong in a group of the 18 best secondbasemen of all time?

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofer ... pos&2B.htm
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Postby Tavish » Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:27 pm

wkelly91 wrote:Does Biggio belong in a group of the 18 best secondbasemen of all time?

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofer ... pos&2B.htm


Yes
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Postby DK » Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:54 pm

d18Mike, LCBOY, I am putting you guys down as "yes", even though you never directly said it.

For-Amazinz, Mikcou, CrazyPooja90, Tavish, DK, DMXdawg, Urge, slomo007, ajgnydc722, Ridgerunner, swingaway, Sam Handwich, SaintsoftheDiamond, d18Mike, LCBOY, thetongueofire, BronsonPinchot (17)
Against- Melo255, WhiteHot, Crip, thehat, wkelly91 (5)
Undecided/There's a case- Quaker (The Peacekeeper... ), Lofunzo (2)
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