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What is wrong with Renteria?

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Postby beltrans_boy » Wed Jun 09, 2004 6:59 am

Bukoski77 wrote:alot of times I'm drunk posting here.


I'll keep this in mind next time I'm asking the cafe for advice! Sheesh! :-o
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Postby StlSluggers » Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:27 am

This is funny to read. You guys are getting more heated in this argument then those other guys who were on the political tear the other day.

Baseball fans are something else... }:-)
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Postby DaveClay12 » Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:25 am

Wow, I'm glad I started this thread... I have a tough day at work, and suddenly I come back, and this is the topic du jour. Go ME!!!

Anyway, to chip in my two cents - the thing with Renteria is, if last year was his "career year" then the year before that was his previous "career year" and ditto for 2000. That to me shows that these aren't "career years" but likely rather steady improvement.

Is Renteria the slugger Tejada is? Heelllll No. But Renteria should hit for higher average, with a comparable OPS (counted in my league), more SBs, and probably slightly more runs scored, and slightly fewer RBI (although, at the pace Tejada is on right now...)

My point simply was that the track Renteria was on seems to have gotten dislodged about a month and a half ago, and I was wondering if people thought that Renteria will get back on it or not. I sure hope he will.

Thanks!!!

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Postby BronsonPinchot » Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:17 pm

Nice post by Bukowski...

LbJackal: Your "opinion" isn't relevant. The type of players Renteria and Tejada are is. If you THINK Renteria is the better fantasy player, you are entitled to that. According to the type of player he is, though, its very UNLIKELY that he will be. That has no relation to your "opinion," or mine. Thats just reality.

Renteria has definitely improved in past years. But he hasn't improved to the point of being a legitimate .330 hitter. For a slugger like Renteria to be a consistent fantasy contributor they have to consistently hit for a high average. See Derek Jeter and Ichiro Suzuki. Renteria has shown signs of becoming that type of player, but he hasn't proven anything yet. One season of well above .300 does not make the player. Now I'm not saying he can't be that kind of player. At all. Renteria may have that kind of talent, I'm no major league scout. What he has shown via his typical seasons is that he is UNLIKELY to be that kind of player. Thats all. You can choose to acknowledge that or choose to ignore it. Doesn't change the fact that that is the type of player he has proven himself as.

Now Renteria is definitely the better runner. But I don't believe that him killing in stolen bases is exactly a sure thing anymore. He hasn't been running as much in recent years as he did early in his career. Maybe that'll change if they ever bat him higher than sixth again. Maybe it won't.

Now I understand you expect a bunch of RBI from Renteria. Good for you. Please understand, though, that this guy is not the type of player who bangs in a lot of runs. You can believe that he might become a player like that, but he isn't there yet. 88 and 100 RBI in two consecutive years is nice. Very nice. But those aren't typical Renteria seasons. Now if you BELIEVE the Renteria we are seeing now is a .300+ hitter who will smack doubles in the high forties again (which he only did once), thats great. Just distinguish between what you BELIEVE and what kind of player Renteria has show himself to be. One season (and even two seasons of improvement) does not necessarily make the player. Don't EXPECT Renteria to reach the numbers you BELIEVE he will reach. Expect him to reach the numbers that a player of his caliber is likely to reach, not unlikely to reach. But definitely HOPE that Renteria lives up to your expectations. Distinguish between what you think is likely and what is actually likely. Good luck to you.
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Postby Ender » Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:09 pm

/shrug.

He's a lifetime .288 hitter who hit 330 last year and 305 the year before. He's the proper age for those to be his coming out years. He has hit 30+ doubles 4 years in the majors, his HR power has been very consistant and I don't believe its unreasonable to expect 25-30 SB's out of him if he's healthy on the year. He hit a very solid .330 last year, hitting over .300 every single month of the season, this was not just a case of a hot streak raising his avg like in 2002 where he hit .400 one month.

This year he was hitting around .300 when his back problems started and his avg dipped down to 261, I really dont' find that to be a coincidence at all. Assuming the back heals I'd expect him to hit around .300, with his typical 10-15 HR, 25-30 SB and decent R/RBI because of the lineup he's in. Just because you want to dwell on his stats from when he was in his lower 20's and probably should have still been in the minors does not mean he's the type of player you think he is.
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Postby BronsonPinchot » Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:29 pm

Its not the player I think he is. Its the player he is. I wasn't being clear though. Renteria should have a good shot at hitting .300. He should have a good shot at 30 sbs if they bat him higher in the order. He's never topped 100 runs, but he's gotten in the 90s a bunch of times, so he should have a shot at OK run totals if they decide to bat him higher in the lineup. Not that there aren't any indications that they will. His homer numbers are low. His RBI numbers were never high, and are only likely to be high if he hits well over .300 and slugs out a lot of doubles. I'm not saying Renteria isn't a good player because of his early years. And I'm not saying he isn't a fantasy starter. Its just unlikely that he'd be worth the high picks (first round in one draft) that I saw him go at. Thats all. He's a fantasy starter and a player I wouldn't mind having on my team. That doesn't mean he wasn't comically overvalued. And claiming he is better than Tejada (not that you did, because you didn't) is hilarious.
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Postby Lofunzo » Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:32 pm

See, Cousin. We're not that far apart. I compare him again to Jeter. Very good fantasy players that go to early relative to their numbers. Part of that is hype and part of that is because SS is pretty thin.
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Postby Ender » Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:41 pm

GRAND SALAMI Renteria, glad I bought low on him now, heh.
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Postby weewee456 » Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:43 pm

WOO-HOO!!!

GRAND SLAM!!!!!!!! :-)
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Postby LBJackal » Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:56 pm

LBJackal wrote:Anyway, Renteria better get his ass in gear. I think I might go make a few offers for him :-?


And by getting his ass in gear, I meant getting a grand slam off of Mark Prior. :-D
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