Joe Morgan - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Joe Morgan

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Postby G-Man » Sat Jun 05, 2004 8:01 pm

All I needed to read about joe morgan to know he isn't exactly the brightest guy was the moneyball "follow-up" published in SI....

even after morgan was repeatedly reminded that billy beane did NOT write the book, he continued to rant about all of the things beane wrote; thus you can infer that he never even read it or he really is a complete moron for not realizing beane was not the author.
G-Man
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1215
Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Baltimore

Postby Surfs up » Sat Jun 05, 2004 8:20 pm

Morgan may know the game but he needs to I mean spend some time you know with somebody I mean you know that can help stop him I mean you know from saying I mean you know. Jon Miller has one of the grast voices in baseball. Vin Scully to.But I truely mis Ernie Harwell. He was one of the best
Joe Morgan the baseball player ;-D
Joe Morgan the color man ;-D
Joe Morgan the talker :- :-t
Surfs up
General Manager
General Manager


Posts: 4752
(Past Year: 190)
Joined: 14 Jun 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby Surfs up » Sat Jun 05, 2004 8:21 pm

I will also be taking some of my own advice and will be getting spelling leasons. Or at least proff read first. :-t
Surfs up
General Manager
General Manager


Posts: 4752
(Past Year: 190)
Joined: 14 Jun 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby matmat » Sat Jun 05, 2004 8:24 pm

Surfs up wrote:Morgan may know the game but he needs to I mean spend some time you know with somebody I mean you know that can help stop him I mean you know from saying I mean you know.


and I mean when he you know starts you know talking about what I mean when I say a slidepiece, you know.
Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll drown because you forgot to teach him to swim.
[url=http://www.indra.com/8ball/front.html]Invaluable Fantasy Baseball Resource[/url]
matmat
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 4120
Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: North cross down

Postby hybrid » Sat Jun 05, 2004 8:58 pm

Surfs up wrote:Joe Morgan the color man ;-D


Huh?
hybrid
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy Expert
Posts: 6107
Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: miles away from the unordinary

Postby sammyfan711 » Sat Jun 05, 2004 9:20 pm

Joe Morgan is old baseball, he was villianized in Moneyball and took offense. His discrediting of "stats people" shows that he can't look at the game of baseball objectively and will remain set in his ways even as the sabermetrically based teams grow in number and quality.
sammyfan711
College Coach
College Coach

User avatar

Posts: 283
Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Chicago

Postby Amazinz » Sat Jun 05, 2004 9:21 pm

hybrid wrote:
Surfs up wrote:Joe Morgan the color man ;-D


Huh?

Color commentator.
Image
Maine has a good swing for a pitcher but on anything that moves, he has no chance. And if it's a fastball, it has to be up in the zone. Basically, the pitcher has to hit his bat. - Mike Pelfrey
Amazinz
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeWeb SupporterPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 18800
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: in Canada, toughening up figure skaters

Postby mcmahojl » Sat Jun 05, 2004 9:22 pm

That slidepiece quote was funny. I would say that I lean more towards stats than the moneyball view, but I think anyone who solely takes one side is seriously going into this argument with blinders on. Clearly when Vince Coleman is on first, Julio Franco would have his attention divided...to say that he is completely focused on the hitter would be nonsense. Divided attention would then lead to say that he is not putting 100% into his next pitch. This then leads to more hittable pitches. But, stats are great because when taken from a fair size pool, shows a great estimation of the player as a whole (players on base, 2 out hits, full count hits, etc.) Look at the three year averages for some stud players...they are very close year after year. But the problem here is you dont know exactly how he got the hits that gave him the average...maybe everytime he was up throughout the season, Vince Coleman was on first...this could lead to a much higher average, making him look like a better player than he really is.
"I live for this game. If baseballs went well with eggs, Id eat them for breakfast..."
mcmahojl
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar

Posts: 458
Joined: 6 May 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Right Field

Postby hybrid » Sat Jun 05, 2004 9:30 pm

Amazinz wrote:
hybrid wrote:
Surfs up wrote:Joe Morgan the color man ;-D


Huh?

Color commentator.


Ah alright. Though how can you like him that much as a color commentator, and not as a talker? Hard to do the one w/ out the other.
hybrid
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy Expert
Posts: 6107
Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: miles away from the unordinary

Re: Joe Morgan

Postby Amazinz » Sat Jun 05, 2004 9:43 pm

athxu wrote:I dare to disagree. He is basically saying, "Stolen bases changes pitchers, resulting in more errors, hittable pitches, etc." Whether it is tangible is something we can decide after looking at the data.

I understand what he is saying but there is no evidence to suggest that this is true. You can prove that a pitcher becomes more hittable with a man on base. Neyer did a little study about this awile back, taking into account the difference when the man on base was a base-stealing threat. There was no difference. Does that prove that these intangibles don't exist? No but I think it's enough evidence for me to believe that they don't.

athxu wrote:You might say who cares about small effects, but wait til the post-season and it's a tie game in the late innings. In fact, you would think that any nervousness effects would be heightened in a high stakes situation.

This is a similar argument to the one made by people who believe in clutch hitters. I can't disprove your opinion but in my opinion MLB players are the creme of the crop. I do not believe a base-stealing threat in the late innings of a playoff game would have any more effect than in any other game.

athxu wrote:I think the mistake a lot of people make, including Joe Morgan, is that intuition is necessarily distinct from data. Asking creative questions is half the chore in any scientific endeavor.

What is intuition but perceptive insight? ;-) I don't think intuition is useless but in terms of baseball I will always favor the statistical evidence. Intuition led James and others to create some truly groundbreaking studies that denied many of the common perceptions at the time. Morgan has perceptions that are off the wall. If someone shows me some evidence to back what he's saying I'll buy into it. Until then I'll continue to think he's crazy. :-D
Image
Maine has a good swing for a pitcher but on anything that moves, he has no chance. And if it's a fastball, it has to be up in the zone. Basically, the pitcher has to hit his bat. - Mike Pelfrey
Amazinz
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeWeb SupporterPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 18800
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: in Canada, toughening up figure skaters

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: buiviopaufamp, Millhouse and 8 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Friday, Jul. 25
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

St. Louis at Chi Cubs
(4:05 pm)
Toronto at NY Yankees
(7:05 pm)
Arizona at Philadelphia
(7:05 pm)
Washington at Cincinnati
(7:10 pm)
Boston at Tampa Bay
(7:10 pm)
indoors
San Diego at Atlanta
(7:35 pm)
Oakland at Texas
(8:05 pm)
Chi White Sox at Minnesota
(8:10 pm)
NY Mets at Milwaukee
(8:10 pm)
Cleveland at Kansas City
(8:10 pm)
Miami at Houston
(8:10 pm)
Pittsburgh at Colorado
(8:40 pm)
Detroit at LA Angels
(10:05 pm)
Baltimore at Seattle
(10:10 pm)
LA Dodgers at San Francisco
(10:15 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact