Struggling SP with a 48/17 K:BB ratio?

[G-Man]

interestingly enough this is the ratio that johan santana is sporting right now. kind of hard to believe considering he is getting bombed lately (although his 1.5+ WHIP captures that a bit more accurately).

Does anyone value K:BB as carrying its weight against other measures like Opponent BA and WHIP?

[GotowarMissAgnes]

The three most important statistics for judging a pitcher's current and future performance are HR per 9 innings pitched, K per 9 innings pitched, and K/BB. Hits are heavily influenced by defense and luck, so if you see a pitcher who is doing well on these other three and mainly having high ERAs because of opponent's batting average, I'd stick with him. The defense might not change, but the luck probably will.

[slomo007]

Does anyone value K:BB as carrying its weight against other measures like Opponent BA and WHIP?

I would be willing to bet Zito is God doesn't.

[DarkShadow]

Santana's also given up a lot of HRs

[G-Man]

Hits are heavily influenced by defense and luck

I agree to an extent with this statement, however even groundball pitchers are shielded by the fact that they are not impacted by errors but ARE rewarded for outstanding defensive plays. Obviously luck has something to do with it (bloopers falling in, etc) but the reason I really like this ratio is that it minimizes the "balls in play" aspect and thus hedges the impact that your team defense has (the counter to this is that, for example, an AB resulting in a K may not reflect a ball on the previous pitch that was hit fair but the line judge erroneously ruled it foul).

[Registered_Guest]

You don't benefit much being a groundball pitcher on the Metrodome's turf. Being a groundball pitcher has more effects for someone like Zambrano with the slow grass of Wrigley. Santana's given up a bunch of HR's as well.

Santana threw far too many fastballs to the Sox over the weekend. The hits were rockets of the Sox bats (whether on the ground threw the INF or shots over the fence). I

I'd stick with Santana. He'd look much more impressive pitching the lefty-hitting heavy AL West. The Twins can't hit lefties if their life depended on it, but unfortunately he pitches for them.

[slomo007]

You don't benefit much being a groundball pitcher on the Metrodome's turf. Being a groundball pitcher has more effects for someone like Zambrano with the slow grass of Wrigley. Santana's given up a bunch of HR's as well.

Santana threw far too many fastballs to the Sox over the weekend. The hits were rockets of the Sox bats (whether on the ground threw the INF or shots over the fence). I

I'd stick with Santana. He'd look much more impressive pitching the lefty-hitting heavy AL West. The Twins can't hit lefties if their life depended on it, but unfortunately he pitches for them.

The Metrodome has new, thicker turf this year. It's actually advantageous to ground-ballers.

[thetongueofire]

different pitchers have different styles and tendencies... so im hoping that no ones out there comparing two completely random pitchers.

but i do agree that these K related stats are pretty telling as long as youre comparing them to a picthers past numbers and kinda factoring in what kind of opponents hes faced...

[trac02]

The Metrodome has new, thicker turf this year. It's actually advantageous to ground-ballers.

Except that it's causing errors all over the place. I was watching Santana's last start and they were talking about how bad the turf was making the Twins fielders look this year -- gave some absurd stat about the number of errors the infield has made this year. Balls take funny hops and generally handcuff the fielders. Saw this a couple times in the Santana start.

[slomo007]

Makes sense....it's a transition period. It would be a good time to make a move for Santana knowing that...by the middle of the season, they will have the turf figured out.