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It's early but, MLB MVP's and Cy leaders till now?

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Postby donut » Tue May 25, 2004 6:14 pm

i'm trying hard to be impartial so i will have to admit posada was safe. but in plays that close with the ball in the hand instead of the glove most of the time the umpire will call the player out even though an actall tag never occured.
also on the defense categorey...with vlad's arm there is really no way to track how many times he keeps a single from turning into a double and from runners advancing from 1st to 3rd on a single.
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Postby jbones733 » Tue May 25, 2004 6:16 pm

A good point. That was the Posada play wasn't it? If it is that one, I should point out that Posada was safe though !+) He was NEVER even tagged with the ball, just a glove with no ball in it and he beat the "tag" anyway. :-P[/quote]

but Posada shouldnt of been of first anyway, he wasnt even hit by the pitch
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Postby jbones733 » Tue May 25, 2004 6:17 pm

blankman wrote:
donut wrote:one area in which i feel vlad is considerably better than manny is on defense. vlad has good speed in the outfield(though he never dives after balls) and has a monster arm. if defense counts towards mvp voting vlad has out classed manny in this categorey. vald leads the majors with 6 outfield assists and has already saved a game this year with his arm.


A good point. That was the Posada play wasn't it? If it is that one, I should point out that Posada was safe though !+) He was NEVER even tagged with the ball, just a glove with no ball in it and he beat the "tag" anyway. :-P


but Posada shouldnt of been of first anyway, he wasnt even hit by the pitch
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Postby donut » Tue May 25, 2004 6:35 pm

yeah!!! i forgot about that. good point jbones
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Postby GSes » Tue May 25, 2004 7:22 pm

As of RIGHT NOW

NL Cy: Randy Johnson, he may only be 5-4, but the guy has a .79 whip, wow.

NL MVP: Lance Berkman, he is been the man as of late and is leading that Houston offense.

AL Cy: Mark Mulder. he has back to back to back CG's

AL MVP: Guerrero, no doubt about it.




How do I think it will end up by the end of the year?

NL Cy: Randy Johnson
NL MVP: Brian Giles (he will lead the Padres into the NL west crown)
AL Cy: Tim Hudson
AL MVP: Vlad Guerrero
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Postby DK » Tue May 25, 2004 7:35 pm

Transmogrifier wrote:For you, then, DK, it's all about stats and not situation? Orioles, in third place, with Raffy, Javy and Tejada? And you pick Mora? I know his stats are good, but the injuries that the Angels and Sox have overcome makes Manny and Vlad the leaders, with Manny on top.


For me, in a sense, it is about stats. MVP is the Most Valuable Player- but to what? The team? The league? The owner? Himself? His wife? His cat? In my opinion, the MVP is the player that accumulates the best overall statistics for the team. I do not consider the MVP to be an award won because of his team's W-L record, because a player who has a 1.000 OBP and a 4.000 SLG could still be on a 42-120 team. Now, because he has those statistics, a team would probably be much better, but imagine how bad a team would be WITHOUT that 1.000 OBP and 4.000 SLG player.

The MVP award, in MY opinion (yours can be different, and I will have no problem with it) should be the player who accumulates the best overall stats. Throw out situation/clutch ability, I thought HOOTIE and Bill James taught you to forget about all that. A-Rod, had he and Derek Jeter been traded while still in the minors, would have four, five, six MVP's by now- with the identical team as Derek Jeter around him. But because he had a sub-par team around him, he could only muster one MVP.

Again, if you disagree with my perception of the MVP, I have no problem. We will agree to disagree, and life will go on. ;-D
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Postby blankman » Tue May 25, 2004 7:45 pm

DK wrote:For me, in a sense, it is about stats. MVP is the Most Valuable Player- but to what? The team? The league? The owner? Himself? His wife? His cat? In my opinion, the MVP is the player that accumulates the best overall statistics for the team. I do not consider the MVP to be an award won because of his team's W-L record, because a player who has a 1.000 OBP and a 4.000 SLG could still be on a 42-120 team. Now, because he has those statistics, a team would probably be much better, but imagine how bad a team would be WITHOUT that 1.000 OBP and 4.000 SLG player.

The MVP award, in MY opinion (yours can be different, and I will have no problem with it) should be the player who accumulates the best overall stats. Throw out situation/clutch ability, I thought HOOTIE and Bill James taught you to forget about all that. A-Rod, had he and Derek Jeter been traded while still in the minors, would have four, five, six MVP's by now- with the identical team as Derek Jeter around him. But because he had a sub-par team around him, he could only muster one MVP.


My definition for the MVP is very similar to yours.

It is sad for A-Rod, but I will agree that A-Rod would have more MVP awards if he had been a NYY, but I wouldn't say 4-6, given that many people's votes are changed because there is more than one great player on a team. For example, the yr Giambi and Soriano were both very good candidates for the award, I think they in voters' minds, cancelled eachother out.
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Postby DK » Tue May 25, 2004 7:53 pm

Think of it this way.

1998- 40-40- Should have ruled the AL. Juan Gone beat him out with all those RBI- another situational stat.
1999- A repeat. Pudge, despite his greatness, didn't deserve that one.
2000- OPS of 1.026. Insane. Giambi was great too, however.
2001-Ichiro won because of his fans and the fact that he was a great Japanese player. A-Rod could have gotten that one.
2002-Tejada shouldn't have gotten this one.
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Postby LBJackal » Tue May 25, 2004 8:09 pm

OK, I'll defend my ranking of Vlad over Manny. To be honest, I didn't put too much thought into it, but I still looked at the stats and made a quick assumption. I think Vlad plays much better defense. From the games I've watched, I've seen Vlad throw out runners at home plate, and cause some runners to not even take the chance. Plus, his range is far better than Manny's. That helps as much as the small difference in OPS/BA, etc, IMO. From what I've seen of Manny, he's not very good defensively, dropping routine balls and whatnot. I could be wrong, and I might be a hypocrite for going based on what I see (like Jeter's defenders do) but Manny looks lost out there while Vlad can save runs with his cannon.

And how about some of the Rolen defenders come out with some reasoning. Lowell has been on par with him defensively, and better offensively. Plus the Cards have Pujols, Edmonds, and Renteria. Lowell has only Miggy. And he also has a better OPS and more HR than Rolen does. Even last season, Lowell had more HR and RBI, all in 24 less games! They had similar range, and Lowell made 30% less errors. Yet, he gets no respect. But that means Lowell goes much later than Rolen in drafts, meaning I get bargains in all my leagues. I guess I should be happy that he's the Rodney Dangerfield of fantasy baseball.
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Postby blankman » Tue May 25, 2004 9:20 pm

DK wrote:Think of it this way.

1998- 40-40- Should have ruled the AL. Juan Gone beat him out with all those RBI- another situational stat.
1999- A repeat. Pudge, despite his greatness, didn't deserve that one.
2000- OPS of 1.026. Insane. Giambi was great too, however.
2001-Ichiro won because of his fans and the fact that he was a great Japanese player. A-Rod could have gotten that one.
2002-Tejada shouldn't have gotten this one.


If I were to vote:
98 Griffey Jr.
99 Manny
00 Giambi
01 Giambi
02 A-Rod
03 A-Rod
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