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anyone know whats going on with johan santana?

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Postby Zito is God » Sat May 22, 2004 8:56 pm

Twinskies wrote:Is there another reason why you hate Santana or is it just that you think he's overrated?


Well, sometimes you just have a feeling. Throwing away all the overated or underated stuff. Throw away that he plays for the twins (my 2nd most hated team). Throw away that he is a natural reliever, not a starter. Its just a feeling that you have, about all the players mostly. You either like them, or you don't. You don't know whats its based on, but its a feeling inside you. Hard to explain.
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Postby tlef316 » Sat May 22, 2004 8:57 pm

i think some of the pre-season hype about santana was a little unrealistic, but i think he will be fine. the guy has good stuff. i have him in our 12 team keeper league, and im certainly willing to be patient. i also have oswalt and hudson, so im getting a little nervous. its still early, have faith
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Postby athxu » Sat May 22, 2004 10:20 pm

Zito is God wrote:Well, sometimes you just have a feeling. Throwing away all the overated or underated stuff. Throw away that he plays for the twins (my 2nd most hated team). Throw away that he is a natural reliever, not a starter. Its just a feeling that you have, about all the players mostly. You either like them, or you don't. You don't know whats its based on, but its a feeling inside you. Hard to explain.


No offense, but these are pretty weak arguments. I have Santana and had high hopes for him, as I think everyone who picked him. If you have any insights on his pitching, I would greatly appreciate it. Saying you have "a feeling" tells me nothing, unless you're a professional scout or something. And even then I'd take it with a grain of salt.

I also don't think the comparison to Zito is out of line. It was inflammatory, but you clearly like Zito, so it's natural to use Zito as a metric. Let me ask you this then: put Zito at 100, where is Santana, Pedro, and C Zambrano.
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Postby thehat » Sat May 22, 2004 10:47 pm

I would not trade Santana for Lieber/Overbay. Santana pitched with a forearm ding early, but is now healthy. His only concern is stamina, as he's never thrown 200 IP...but I'd rather have the 25 year old on the rise than one that was abused early (Zito reference).

Overbay is not an elite 1B. He'll hit for a good average, but 15 HR is his ceiling, and he has no speed. Lieber is a definite question mark coming back from major surgery, and aside from 2001 (20-6, 3.80) he's never been near All Star caliber.

Plus, you have to cut someone if you're doing this one for two. Bad deal.
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Postby Zito is God » Sat May 22, 2004 11:51 pm

athxu wrote:
Zito is God wrote:Well, sometimes you just have a feeling. Throwing away all the overated or underated stuff. Throw away that he plays for the twins (my 2nd most hated team). Throw away that he is a natural reliever, not a starter. Its just a feeling that you have, about all the players mostly. You either like them, or you don't. You don't know whats its based on, but its a feeling inside you. Hard to explain.


No offense, but these are pretty weak arguments. I have Santana and had high hopes for him, as I think everyone who picked him. If you have any insights on his pitching, I would greatly appreciate it. Saying you have "a feeling" tells me nothing, unless you're a professional scout or something. And even then I'd take it with a grain of salt.

I also don't think the comparison to Zito is out of line. It was inflammatory, but you clearly like Zito, so it's natural to use Zito as a metric. Let me ask you this then: put Zito at 100, where is Santana, Pedro, and C Zambrano.


Once again a poster does not read the quesion or see the intent of an answer and posts. His quesion was "is there another reason I don't LIKE Santana"? This means personally and not from a fantasy standpoint. I gave a reason why I don't like HIM, not his pitching, not his fantasy numbers, not his K rate. Nothing of the sort. please read quesions/responses more carefully next time buddy...
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Postby issyg67 » Sun May 23, 2004 1:48 am

I was offered Santana for Frank Thomas earlier this week. Still mulling it over. My pitching sucks -- Barry Zito is my ace, followed by Loaiza and Cliff Lee -- and the guy offering Santana said he would take Chan Ho Park in return. Fortunately, I have enough offense to give up a guy like Thomas.

Is Santana for Thomas worth it?
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Postby slomo007 » Sun May 23, 2004 1:54 am

Take Santana and run. He'll come around, he has too much potential to pass that deal up. Even if he continues pitching like he is, which isn't that bad...at least the deal wouldn't be a total loss.
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Postby Silver Slugger » Sun May 23, 2004 3:55 am

you might consider that choi offer, too. i think choi is overrated (sorry, I know I am WAY off topic) and i think he won't be all that good from here on out.

as far as having a "feeling" about some players, i know what you mean. some guys you just like or don't like for irrational reasons. for example, i have never liked arod, but would still draft for him. alternately, i do like c. zambrano, and thought i might have taken him a little to early in the draft (10-12 round - in retrospect, it worked).

but yeah, i definately know what you mean.
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Postby G-Man » Sun May 23, 2004 12:05 pm

i think it is still reasonable to be patient with santana and expect good things ahead....all of the hype built up around him as a MR last year was generated by dominant performances and in a thread I started a week or two I mentioned an article saying he was tipping pitches. i think he will be a nice #2/#3 fantasy SP by the end of the season.
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Postby swoosh3esq » Sun May 23, 2004 12:31 pm

I just traded Dontrelle Willis, Milton, and Kevin Millar for Santana. I am surprised at how peops are willing to give up on a guy with so much potential after only two months. And he is not throwing that bad, good k/bb numbers.
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