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Did Graves look bad?

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Postby bleach168 » Thu May 20, 2004 10:36 pm

WhiteHot wrote:All that matters is the saves? The dude is a walking time bomb. He's blown 4 saves already. He'll blow a lot more. And just wait. You'll see the ERA and WHIP get blown out of the water too.

He's in the Herges, Biddle, Koch tier of closers.


I don't think so. I know Danny Graves isn't the greatest of closers, but he does have a good history of closing. He saved #149 today, making him the #1 closer in Reds history. That's something those other guys can't touch. That means he's got the closer's job secured in Cincy for as long as he's there.

He'll continue pitching like normal and saving around 80% of the opportunities, but look for the number of opportunities to go down.
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Postby Dice » Thu May 20, 2004 11:12 pm

I do not recognize this Danny Graves a lot of you are talking about. The ticking time bomb, walking disaster one. Who is he?

Here are his stats of the Danny Graves I know from the years in which he was the primary closer:

1999 27 Saves 3.08 ERA 1.25 WHIP, 8W-7L
2000 30 Saves 2.56 ERA 1.35 WHIP, 10-5
2001 32 Saves 4.15 ERA 1.26 WHIP, 6-5
2002 32 Saves 3.19 ERA 1.26 WHIP, 7-3
2004 17 Saves 3.13 ERA 1.13 WHIP, 1-3

If someone guaranteed that Mystery Closer X was good for 30 saves, an ERA in the low to mid 3's, and a 1.25 WHIP, you'd jump on him, right? Because he doesn't strike out a lot of batters, he's not elite, but he appears to be pretty damn good to me.
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Postby matmat » Thu May 20, 2004 11:15 pm

Dice wrote:I do not recognize this Danny Graves a lot of you are talking about. The ticking time bomb, walking disaster one. Who is he?

Here are his stats of the Danny Graves I know from the years in which he was the primary closer:

1999 27 Saves 3.08 ERA 1.25 WHIP, 8W-7L
2000 30 Saves 2.56 ERA 1.35 WHIP, 10-5
2001 32 Saves 4.15 ERA 1.26 WHIP, 6-5
2002 32 Saves 3.19 ERA 1.26 WHIP, 7-3
2004 17 Saves 3.13 ERA 1.13 WHIP, 1-3

If someone guaranteed that Mystery Closer X was good for 30 saves, an ERA in the low to mid 3's, and a 1.25 WHIP, you'd jump on him, right? Because he doesn't strike out a lot of batters, he's not elite, but he appears to be pretty damn good to me.


maybe. I really don't like that many decisions for a primary closer
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Postby bleach168 » Thu May 20, 2004 11:19 pm

matmat wrote:
Dice wrote:I do not recognize this Danny Graves a lot of you are talking about. The ticking time bomb, walking disaster one. Who is he?

Here are his stats of the Danny Graves I know from the years in which he was the primary closer:

1999 27 Saves 3.08 ERA 1.25 WHIP, 8W-7L
2000 30 Saves 2.56 ERA 1.35 WHIP, 10-5
2001 32 Saves 4.15 ERA 1.26 WHIP, 6-5
2002 32 Saves 3.19 ERA 1.26 WHIP, 7-3
2004 17 Saves 3.13 ERA 1.13 WHIP, 1-3

If someone guaranteed that Mystery Closer X was good for 30 saves, an ERA in the low to mid 3's, and a 1.25 WHIP, you'd jump on him, right? Because he doesn't strike out a lot of batters, he's not elite, but he appears to be pretty damn good to me.


maybe. I really don't like that many decisions for a primary closer


He gets more decisions because he pitches more innings than a normal closer. In 1999, they made him pitch 111 innings, that's almost like 2 RP's worth.
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Postby Members Only Jackets » Fri May 21, 2004 1:01 am

18


YEAH ;-D
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Postby KULCAT » Fri May 21, 2004 3:04 am

Lets not threat Graves as if he was Billy Wagner but lets remember the guy´s is not Aquilino Lopez either. Middle tier closer who´s getting many saves. I have him and im not overly happy but i am content
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Postby Members Only Jackets » Fri May 21, 2004 3:32 am

KULCAT wrote:Lets not threat Graves as if he was Billy Wagner but lets remember the guy´s is not Aquilino Lopez either. Middle tier closer who´s getting many saves. I have him and im not overly happy but i am content


I'm really happy with him because I picked him up off the WW when he had 3 saves. But I also know hes capable of blowing games...gotta love the save opps tho.
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Postby wrveres » Fri May 21, 2004 3:39 am

benjapage wrote:graves always looks bad. he's enfuriating to watch. i don't own him, but i'm a reds fan. he makes me sick every time he enters the game. i wish riedling were our closer (or that we hadn't traded reitsma, and he were our closer)...

however, i agree that, as long as he's in cincinnati, he will close. management needs to inflate his value beyond reason (job well done, insofar as that is concerned), and ship him off for three starters whose names we've never heard (and might never hear again). such is the way of my redlegs. :-/

b


yes, I agree with ya ....

But In that last fire sale ...
They actually got a few good arms.

wonder if they would consider bringing Boone back for 3B? You know, let by-gones be by-gones. :-D
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Postby wrveres » Fri May 21, 2004 3:42 am

I'll start shopping him towards the middle of June.

Once the rumors start. You won't be able to get chit :-D
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Postby warrick95 » Fri May 21, 2004 12:11 pm

Guys, Graves is doing nothing but get the job done. It's not pretty and it's definitely more nervewrecking than having a closer like Wagner or Gagne, but he's a top middle-tier closer. Come on...would you rather have an established guy like Graves or Rocky Biddle?

The only thing that worries me about Graves is the trade possibility. That's it. He seems to be a superb closer who gets the job done when he's in there.

That being said, would y'all deal him for M. Giles and Hawkins?
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