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The Big Bad Veto

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The Big Bad Veto

Postby pokerplaya » Wed May 19, 2004 12:48 pm

Hey everyone, I'm fairly new around here but I'm a veteran of fantasy sports and I just thought I'd start a discussion about the veto. I'm sure you're all familiar with it, as I am sure each and everyone has experienced a deal where it was misused.

I've been in countless leagues where a veto has been used when it shouldn't be. To me, the veto is simply there for when there is a case of clear collusion. However, it is now used as a tool to try and control the aspects of your league. If the trade doesn't help you, shoot it down.

Many owners cry out that "one owner is ripping off the other" and while this may be the case, who is that owner to judge. Every manager should have full control over his/her team, and another team should not exude their "superior knowledge" over the other owner.

The veto has obviously been abused in many leagues, and offers are vetoed with far too much regularity. As far as I'm concerned, the trade is another means that a manager has to improve their team. The draft, FA pickups, and daily roster moves are all part of that same formula. The trade is just another part of this that is to be manipulated to improve your team.

I guess this post is a rant of sorts, because I am tired of people vetoing everything and anything in their leagues. I feel that those who veto trades are actually limiting the competition in their leagues. They cry foul that the deal was unfair, but they are really bothered because it hurt their chances to win, not because it was a mistake for one team. I believe that these owners should rise above, and not veto. Win despite these perceived bad trades. If you win, you know you won without playing God to all of the trades that didn't help your team.

Sorry for the long post, good to be here though and rant and rave about all things fantasy baseball.
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Postby Zito is God » Wed May 19, 2004 12:54 pm

There are trades that are fair, trades that are non-balanced, and trades that are veto-needed.

If someone offers Vic Martinez for Mike Piazza I want the trade Vetoed. ;-D
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Postby ensanimal » Wed May 19, 2004 1:16 pm

the veto is definetly used too much. sometimes trades that look unfair to some aren't unfair at all. in one my leagues people vetoed a trade of Jim Thome for Octavio Dotel. On the surface it seems unfair. But looking closer, the guy who traded Thome had Bagwell as a backup, and was in desperate need of a closer. This trade will actually move the guy up in the standings, even though he got the wrong side of the deal. Still enough people thought it veto worthy :-t
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Postby great gretzky » Wed May 19, 2004 1:28 pm

there is no such thing as the "wrong" side of the deal in that situation.

As an owner, I reserve the right to overpay for stats that I need, that isn't for the league to decide.

Ia gree that can be a tool used to keep certain teams down.

It should, at minimum require a majority, not the 1/3 crap yahoo has.
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Postby great gretzky » Wed May 19, 2004 1:30 pm

I do think it is worth noting that the rest of the americna league can't veto the yanks getting arod.

It is the job of the rest of the owners to compensate. Not to whine and keep a team from improving.
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Postby rolenfan » Wed May 19, 2004 1:45 pm

great gretzky wrote:As an owner, I reserve the right to overpay for stats that I need, that isn't for the league to decide.

It should, at minimum require a majority, not the 1/3 crap yahoo has.

I agree completely. If I make what you percieve as a bad move, even of you think it makes you less likely to win because it strengthens your opponent, you have no right to tell me I am wrong or can't do it.

Write me a note and try to convince me I shouldn't do it if you want. A trade offer can be rejected by either side for a period of time. Don't tell me I can't do what I think is best for my team because it will hurt your chances of winning.

There are certainly instances of collusion and the issue of taking unfair advantage of a manager's lack of knowledge (such as one not knowing of an injury or recent trade), but that lack of knowledge does not extend to the point of something along the lines of you think your opinion is right and mine is wrong.

Part of the fun of FBB is taking those chances and playing your hunches. Nobody has a right to tell me I shouldn't do that.

I disagree with Zito is God's example. That Martinez for Piazza trade could work out great for the guy getting Martinez and that manager has the right to take that risk.
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Postby bleach168 » Wed May 19, 2004 1:50 pm

ensanimal wrote:the veto is definetly used too much. sometimes trades that look unfair to some aren't unfair at all. in one my leagues people vetoed a trade of Jim Thome for Octavio Dotel. On the surface it seems unfair. But looking closer, the guy who traded Thome had Bagwell as a backup, and was in desperate need of a closer. This trade will actually move the guy up in the standings, even though he got the wrong side of the deal. Still enough people thought it veto worthy :-t


It's veto worthy if the guy with Gagne (or another closer who is better than Dotel) was willing to trade for Thome. In which case, the person trading Thome is being stupid.

It's everybody's duty to at least try to play smart and not stupid.
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Postby ensanimal » Wed May 19, 2004 2:00 pm

bleach168 wrote:
ensanimal wrote:the veto is definetly used too much. sometimes trades that look unfair to some aren't unfair at all. in one my leagues people vetoed a trade of Jim Thome for Octavio Dotel. On the surface it seems unfair. But looking closer, the guy who traded Thome had Bagwell as a backup, and was in desperate need of a closer. This trade will actually move the guy up in the standings, even though he got the wrong side of the deal. Still enough people thought it veto worthy :-t


It's veto worthy if the guy with Gagne (or another closer who is better than Dotel) was willing to trade for Thome. In which case, the person trading Thome is being stupid.

It's everybody's duty to at least try to play smart and not stupid.


the guy who had dotel also had gagne and wagner, which is why everyone else is fighting for saves. i think thats why they vetoed it, cause he finally worked out a trade for a closer.
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Postby warrick95 » Wed May 19, 2004 2:00 pm

I'm glad to say that no trades in my league have been vetoed. I think we all give the other owners enough credit to make plausible trades. In addition, nobody has been stupid enough to accept something really unfair, either.

M. Ramirez+Nen for Beltran
Hawkins for Kearns
M. Cabrera for Colon
Tejada for Giles

Two that are currently pending:
Morris+Durham for Zito
Loretta for Cl. Lee

I've been involved in half of those deals...so it would've been stupid to veto those...I haven't pressed the veto button yet, though. :-)
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Postby bleach168 » Wed May 19, 2004 2:02 pm

ensanimal wrote:
bleach168 wrote:
ensanimal wrote:the veto is definetly used too much. sometimes trades that look unfair to some aren't unfair at all. in one my leagues people vetoed a trade of Jim Thome for Octavio Dotel. On the surface it seems unfair. But looking closer, the guy who traded Thome had Bagwell as a backup, and was in desperate need of a closer. This trade will actually move the guy up in the standings, even though he got the wrong side of the deal. Still enough people thought it veto worthy :-t


It's veto worthy if the guy with Gagne (or another closer who is better than Dotel) was willing to trade for Thome. In which case, the person trading Thome is being stupid.

It's everybody's duty to at least try to play smart and not stupid.


the guy who had dotel also had gagne and wagner, which is why everyone else is fighting for saves. i think thats why they vetoed it, cause he finally worked out a trade for a closer.


Interesting... well, if Dotel was the absolute best he could get for Thome (which just might have been the case). Then no veto.
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