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The Greatest Right-Handed Pitcher of alltime

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The Greatest Right-Handed Pitcher of ALLTIME?

Walter Johnson
22
38%
Pete Alexander
1
2%
Christy Mathewson
3
5%
Roger Clemens
13
22%
Pedro Martinez
6
10%
Greg Maddux
4
7%
Tom Seaver
4
7%
Bob Gibson
5
9%
 
Total votes : 58

Re: The Greatest Right-Handed Pitcher of alltime

Postby Neato Torpedo » Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:12 pm

Tavish wrote:
HOOTIE wrote:How did Gibson get 5 votes?????

And more votes then Seaver, Maddux, Mathewson???


It has to be because people refuse to look at 1969 as a whole and just like to focus on the individual numbers.

*1968

Gibson's career K/9 isn't even 8. Not high enough to justify a "best all-time RHP" title with such high career walk rates. '68 was his only career season with an ERA under 2.44, and only 7 of his 17 years had under 3.00 ERA.
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Re: The Greatest Right-Handed Pitcher of alltime

Postby wkelly91 » Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:45 am

Neato Torpedo wrote:
Tavish wrote:
HOOTIE wrote:How did Gibson get 5 votes?????

And more votes then Seaver, Maddux, Mathewson???


It has to be because people refuse to look at 1969 as a whole and just like to focus on the individual numbers.

*1968

Gibson's career K/9 isn't even 8. Not high enough to justify a "best all-time RHP" title with such high career walk rates. '68 was his only career season with an ERA under 2.44, and only 7 of his 17 years had under 3.00 ERA.


I think you have to consider Gibson and others by how domminant they were in their own era. Gibson pitched in a pitchers era with low era's and such. I think Maddux's accomplishments in the era of juicing are far more remarkable.
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Re: The Greatest Right-Handed Pitcher of alltime

Postby Carnac » Tue May 12, 2009 6:24 pm

Walter "Big Train" Johnson
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Re: The Greatest Right-Handed Pitcher of alltime

Postby Yanks_Baby » Tue May 12, 2009 6:34 pm

wkelly91 wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:
Tavish wrote:
It has to be because people refuse to look at 1969 as a whole and just like to focus on the individual numbers.

*1968

Gibson's career K/9 isn't even 8. Not high enough to justify a "best all-time RHP" title with such high career walk rates. '68 was his only career season with an ERA under 2.44, and only 7 of his 17 years had under 3.00 ERA.


I think you have to consider Gibson and others by how domminant they were in their own era. Gibson pitched in a pitchers era with low era's and such. I think Maddux's accomplishments in the era of juicing are far more remarkable.

In 06, Maddux through 8 scoreless innings with 68 pitches. That is one of the single most unbelievable pitcher stats I've ever seen in my life. 24 outs with 68 pitches = less than 3 pitches per batter. No other pitcher in the history of baseball can claim such efficiency. Maddux gets my vote.
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Re: The Greatest Right-Handed Pitcher of alltime

Postby Carnac » Fri May 15, 2009 6:00 pm

Yanks,

Red Barret
9 inning complete game
58 pitches
2-0 shutout

Maddux is one of the top pitchers of all-time. But, Walter Johnson was better.

Pitching catagories led league in (# of times)

ERA Johnson 5 times, Maddux 4 times
ERA+ Johnson 6 times, Maddux 5 times
Whip Johnson 6 times, Maddux 4 times
Wins Johnson 6 times, Maddux 3 times
K/BB Johnson 9 times, Maddux 3 times

In addition Johnson's win % above team win % was .100, Maddux .069 through the 2005 season. Didn't bother to look up difference from 06-08, but I assume it came down a little because his record was 37-38.

In every measure comparing the pitchers to their peers, Johnson is better. Many other stats I chose not to use because that would favor Johnson by a wider margin than is reasonable.

Maddux was indeed a great pitcher, but not Johnson's equal.
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Re: The Greatest Right-Handed Pitcher of alltime

Postby thedude » Thu May 21, 2009 7:53 am

Carnac wrote:Maddux is one of the top pitchers of all-time. But, Walter Johnson was better.

Pitching catagories led league in (# of times)

ERA Johnson 5 times, Maddux 4 times
ERA+ Johnson 6 times, Maddux 5 times
Whip Johnson 6 times, Maddux 4 times
Wins Johnson 6 times, Maddux 3 times
K/BB Johnson 9 times, Maddux 3 times

In addition Johnson's win % above team win % was .100, Maddux .069 through the 2005 season. Didn't bother to look up difference from 06-08, but I assume it came down a little because his record was 37-38.

In every measure comparing the pitchers to their peers, Johnson is better. Many other stats I chose not to use because that would favor Johnson by a wider margin than is reasonable.

Maddux was indeed a great pitcher, but not Johnson's equal.


Maddux's prime at least equals the prime of Johnson, if it does not surpass it. His best years are arguably better than Johnson's best if you go by ERA+.

Maddux best single season Era+: 271. Maddux second best single season ERA+: 262
Johnson best single season Era+: 259. Johnson second best single season ERA+: 242

The fact that Johnson happened to lead the league in ERA one more time than Maddux does not necessarily make him the better pitcher. If you include times finished in the top 2 in ERA than Maddux and Johnson both have 7.

Additionally the fact that Johnson had a higher winning percent against his own team than Maddux does mean anything. The reason the Braves were great was because that team had 3 hall of fame pitchers and often had one or two other pitchers having very good years. Johnson on the other had was the often the only good player on player on those Senator teams, occasionally he one of his teammates would have a winning record, but none of those pitching staffs had anyone the equal of Smoltz or Glavine.
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