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Yahoo H2H: Is there a strategy or is it just dumb luck?

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Yahoo H2H: Is there a strategy or is it just dumb luck?

Postby ironman » Mon May 10, 2004 5:46 pm

People seem to fall on one side of the fence or the other on this issue. Majority of my leagues are Yahoo H2H leagues, which I prefer. I do agree there is some luck involved but to say that there is no strategy to it I find to be far from the truth.

Having ran my own leagues on Yahoo H2H for going on my 4th year I have to say I don't think its a total coincidence that I get the same managers near the top of the standings and the same at the bottom. However I do think that luck can play a big factor in the playoffs as I have seen dominate first place managers go down in the first round all too often. In a way I think that being a regular season champ in a Yahoo H2H holds more honor and glory than winning the playoffs

This more of just a rambling thread for people's thoughts on this than anything. I just thought it would be interesting to hear people's arguments for or againts H2H leagues. Is Yahoo's H2H style (a weird weekly roto type scoring) better than a H2H-points style scoring? IMO I find H2H to be more exciting come the second half of a season just for the fact that in most roto leagues I play the standings are pretty well settled at that point with very few shifts in the standings. My favorite way to describe Yahoo H2H is that its like roto-style baseball for people with ADD. :-D

So anyway whether you're a H2H freak, or a Roto-purist, feel free to drop your $0.02 on the subject.
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Postby thetruth » Mon May 10, 2004 5:52 pm

i like head2head better because I've found in roto the people at the bottom lose interest in the league and dont care if they finish in 7th or 12th. at least with head2head you can at least be motivated to beat the other person each week. I know what you mean though with the H2H playoffs. Its easy for someone who dominated the league all year to get beat by some scrub team who had a lucky week.
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Postby BronsonPinchot » Mon May 10, 2004 6:02 pm

Head2Head is absolutely better, and yes, there is strategy. There was a thread, perhaps early last week, that discussed ERA being the tiebreaker in h2h playoff games...so you certainly want a staff with low era potential. Theres also the general strategy of trying to house several categories, basically making your team a lock for them, and then giving yourself a chance in a few others. H2H definitely isn't as accurate as Roto is in terms of your players' seasonlong performances influencing the performance of your team, but it is fun and requires its own types of strategies.
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Postby matmat » Mon May 10, 2004 6:11 pm

i like roto better than h2h. with that disclaimer I think that skill is certainly a big part of h2h, however:

h2h rewards active managers a lot more than passive ones, so people who actually have lives outside of FBB tend to not do as well as the ones that spend every fee minute reading the cafe ;-D . I think that a way to possibly fix this is not to have daily h2h leagues, but more like weekly ones or, perhaps, limit the number of roster pick-ups that can be made. After all, I expect the person who can rotate starters in every day to do better than the one that looks at his team once a week.

the yahoo h2h scoring is good for keeping people into playing... would you rather be 0-3 or 12-18?
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Postby matmat » Mon May 10, 2004 6:15 pm

I think the bottom line is, and I am sure this has been said before, having a league full of active managers. If that is the case, the type of league doesn't matter. h2h, IMO though, is for people with short attention spans and those who like to overmanage.
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Postby bleach168 » Mon May 10, 2004 6:30 pm

There's plenty of strategy in H2H. Too much strategy if you ask me. Most people know the draft all offense and no pitching and just spot start 30 guys a week to win some pitching categories.

Another one that I have never seen talked about on this board is the September Coors Field strategy. Maybe I'm the first to come up with this, but when doing H2H with a playoff system, you want to make sure your team performs when it counts the most which is September. So on draft day, stock up on players who will be playing in Coors field come September. Did you know St. Louis has a 3-game road trip to Coors the last week of baseball? You should. Guys like Pujols, Edmonds, and Rolen might singlehandedly win your H2H league that playoff week. Why not get all 3 of them?

There are a ton of strategies in H2H, from tanking categories, spot starting 30 pitchers a week and others, but it all seems to detract from the true feel of real baseball. That's why I prefer roto. Feels more "right" to me.
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Postby great gretzky » Mon May 10, 2004 7:01 pm

you know, a lot of you will think this is dumb, but I have really thought about creating some sort of hybrid league once to give ti a whirl. First off, I am annoyed that saves and steals are overrepresnted, so I toyed with combining the two, so you have options on how to approach the problem.

I really wish there could be a head to head element to roto. like have a five by five by one. The one being best record in head to head matchups.

only problem is I don't knwo how to really implement it.

it hink it could keep the other owners interested.

We also thought about doing a mirror league to see the differences. Like everyteam is duplicated from roto to head to head, and mvoes made in roto are mirrored in the other. I wonder what the differences would be.
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Re: Yahoo H2H: Is there a strategy or is it just dumb luck?

Postby jbones733 » Mon May 10, 2004 7:34 pm

ironman wrote:People seem to fall on one side of the fence or the other on this issue. Majority of my leagues are Yahoo H2H leagues, which I prefer. I do agree there is some luck involved but to say that there is no strategy to it I find to be far from the truth.

Having ran my own leagues on Yahoo H2H for going on my 4th year I have to say I don't think its a total coincidence that I get the same managers near the top of the standings and the same at the bottom. However I do think that luck can play a big factor in the playoffs as I have seen dominate first place managers go down in the first round all too often. In a way I think that being a regular season champ in a Yahoo H2H holds more honor and glory than winning the playoffs

This more of just a rambling thread for people's thoughts on this than anything. I just thought it would be interesting to hear people's arguments for or againts H2H leagues. Is Yahoo's H2H style (a weird weekly roto type scoring) better than a H2H-points style scoring? IMO I find H2H to be more exciting come the second half of a season just for the fact that in most roto leagues I play the standings are pretty well settled at that point with very few shifts in the standings. My favorite way to describe Yahoo H2H is that its like roto-style baseball for people with ADD. :-D

So anyway whether you're a H2H freak, or a Roto-purist, feel free to drop your $0.02 on the subject.


I agree with everything you said, In my leagues its all kids from college & friends & basically in all 4 sports the same amanages in eacdh sport are up on top. Like some kidds r great in hockey but stink inn baseball or vice versa.

the playoffs is a lil luck, & injuries are big also. Last year I won the divison by 40 games & lost in the 2nd rd of the playoffs, but it also makes it more exciting & entetrtaining , i love H2H
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Postby matmat » Mon May 10, 2004 7:38 pm

great gretzky wrote:
I really wish there could be a head to head element to roto. like have a five by five by one. The one being best record in head to head matchups.

only problem is I don't knwo how to really implement it.

it hink it could keep the other owners interested.

We also thought about doing a mirror league to see the differences. Like everyteam is duplicated from roto to head to head, and mvoes made in roto are mirrored in the other. I wonder what the differences would be.


I really like both of these ideas. I've actually given some thought to the second. that shouldn't be too bad to implement, right? you might even be able to do this on paper if your league isn't too big... the problem comes in with strategy -- so your playing lineups could be different as long as your entire roster is the same.

As far as the first one is concerned -- it is an interesting idea but it needs some further development. I am worried that this extra category would just make the better teams get more points, it wouldn't serve to even out the score . i.e. weaker teams could not use it to gain ground like, say, they could in steals or runs or whatnot.
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Postby federo » Mon May 10, 2004 7:57 pm

H2H is all about strategy and has little to do with luck. Since I started playing in H2H leagues last June I have gone 23-1, with the one loss coming my first week before I used the strategy that bleach mentioned of sacrificing pitching to build a great offense and then loading up on spot starters to assure victory in W and K every week. This strategy is almost unbeatable unless your opponent uses it too. In H2H leagues it is absolutely critical to play matchups and have a few roster spots you can use to rotate in spot starters, fill empty starting spots on offense on Mondays and Thursdays and bench slumping sluggers for hot FA bats.

It's also important at the beginning of every week to form a strategy based on your opponent's strengths and weaknesses. I always map out who his starters are facing vs. the teams my starters are facing. And then on the weekend, especially Sunday, you have to check all your cats to know which ones are won/lost and which ones are still up in the air. Like say it's Sunday night and you have Jason Giambi left and your opponent has no one. If you have already won HR, RBI, have no chance at SB or R and are 3 points ahead in BA, you've got to bench Giambi.
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