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Postby blankman » Sun May 09, 2004 10:27 am

Pedro wrote:
Pedro wrote:I don't see how anyone can say the Yanks have an IF as good as the Cards or Texas.

You are obviously not reading the original post of offense + defense.

The Yankees have terrible IF defense.

A-Rod is good.

Jeter is god awful.

Cairo/Wilson are average.

Giambi/Clark - Giambi is terrible and Clark is average.

You're all looking at offense and not the whole picture.

And sadly, they still have a top 3 IF.


I said both.

Was just trying to give the Yanks some props..geesh. :-/


I was refering to your 1st post in which you said the Royals, Rangers and Cards all had a better infield than the Yankees- making them not top 3. You have made conflicting statements, first saying that they are not top 3 (by putting the Royals ahead of them) and then relenting that they are top 3.
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Postby Nomar4prez » Sun May 09, 2004 11:52 am

For the future:

Rangers-
If they all stay together, it could be one of the best infields ever in 4-5 years. Just think 4 guys who could hit over 30 homeruns, and they are all(except Soriano, but he's improved from last year) good at defense.
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Postby Pedro » Sun May 09, 2004 12:35 pm

blankman wrote:
Pedro wrote:
Pedro wrote:I don't see how anyone can say the Yanks have an IF as good as the Cards or Texas.

You are obviously not reading the original post of offense + defense.

The Yankees have terrible IF defense.

A-Rod is good.

Jeter is god awful.

Cairo/Wilson are average.

Giambi/Clark - Giambi is terrible and Clark is average.

You're all looking at offense and not the whole picture.

And sadly, they still have a top 3 IF.


I said both.

Was just trying to give the Yanks some props..geesh. :-/


I was refering to your 1st post in which you said the Royals, Rangers and Cards all had a better infield than the Yankees- making them not top 3. You have made conflicting statements, first saying that they are not top 3 (by putting the Royals ahead of them) and then relenting that they are top 3.


Right.

And your point is?
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Postby eftda » Sun May 09, 2004 12:45 pm

This year: Texas
Last year: Cards (When Pujols was at 1st)

Does anyone remmeber that Infield in New York (Mets) in 2000... One of the best in the last 10 years.
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Postby rlee » Sun May 09, 2004 1:06 pm

Are you talking about offense AND defense? If so, I don't think there is any question that Texas has emerged so far this year as the best. :-°

Young has made the transition to SS seamlessly and Soriano has all of a sudden taken interest in defense and is playing well. ;-)

Offensively, they are the only ones without a hole. StL and NYY have no 2B. :-b

The Rangers have been dumb like foxes ;-7
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Postby LBJackal » Sun May 09, 2004 1:24 pm

eftda wrote:This year: Texas
Last year: Cards (When Pujols was at 1st)

Does anyone remmeber that Infield in New York (Mets) in 2000... One of the best in the last 10 years.


Pujols is at 1B this year too. IMO I don't see how any IF could top StL. Renteria and Rolen are not only the best offensively at their position in the NL, but defensively too. The same argument could be made for Pujols; he's a great defender, and obviously the best hitting 1B in the NL. Texas is OK, but Soriano is bad defensively. NYY is OK, but Jeter and Giambi are bad defensively. StL has great offensive and defensive players all around.
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Postby ajgnydc722 » Sun May 09, 2004 1:46 pm

I'll agree with LBJackal here only if defense is counted. If this is offensively based then it's hands down the Yankees with St. Looey as a 2nd.

Though I think Jeter is a bad shortstop, you people just destroy him. Jeter's career fielding % is .975. To put that in perspective, A-Rod's is .979. Sure he has no range but he has instincts to make up for it. Cutting off a ball and flipping it to a catcher to nail a run at home while saving your season has nothing to do with having no freaking range. Name me another shortstop who would've made a play like that. Jeter has instincts like none other. Plays like that discount range and fielding percentage and all stats. Stats don't always tell the true story.

Now I'll be the first to admit Jeter is a bad fielder but he's not going to go out there and make millions of errors and cost games. He'll be unlucky if he costs 1 all year. As I've said before, Jeter IS underrated. Underrated by people sick of hearing he's the best. Jeter's a bad fielder but not a bad as you all make him out to be. He's not so horrible and such a fool that he automatically makes the Yankees defense completely horrible. He still makes plays, maybe he just lets a few more balls through than some others because he can't get to them. Personally I don't really care. He's not preventing the Yankees from winning so it's really irrelavent to me.
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Postby WhiteHot » Sun May 09, 2004 1:49 pm

Last year, Jeter was the worst starting SS defensively in the majors. Based on Zone Rating, Fielding Percentage, etc.
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Postby slomo007 » Sun May 09, 2004 1:52 pm

Jeter is bad, and I could be wrong, but I never viewed Pujols as a great defensive first basemen either. Am I just way off? Obviously, I'm not questioning his offense.
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Postby ajgnydc722 » Sun May 09, 2004 1:55 pm

Personally I think defensive stats are overrated. A defensive stat can't show you that Andruw Jones made a ridiculous diving catch to prevent 3 runs from scoring. They don't show 'web gem' type plays. Jeter's got the worst range in baseball, ok, but as I said, how many games is that going to cost the team? Probably none. If Jeter lets a ground ball go through that maybe Renteria would've gotten, but then makes a spectacular play like the 'Oakland Flip', a play that doesn't show up on a statsheet, let's just say that I'll deal with it, ok? :-D
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