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Pat Tillman has just been awarded the Silver Star

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Postby CheeseBeger » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:31 am

Wasn't there something like this in 1984... Create stories or heroes so everyone always beleived they were always winning the war to keep support.
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Postby 5 » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:52 am

Art Vandelay wrote:
Omaha Red Sox wrote:The actions of others does not take away from the price Tillman paid for his country. He gave away comfort and security so that we can have comfort and security. He is a true American Hero and the details surrounding his death and shortly after do not change that.


Nobody is saying that he is any less of a hero because of how he died. What we're saying (what I'm saying at least) is that it's absolutely despicable that the higher ups flat out lied to the public and, more importantly, his family, about how he died. I think the least they deserve is the truth on the last moments of their son/brother/etc.'s life.

Then, not only did they lie about it, but they used his death as a propoganda tool. It takes nothing away from Tillman's sacrafice, but it's a morally reprehensible thing to do.


I agree 100%. Despicable was the word I thought of when I heard this story. Did you know that Tillman was asked to be a recruiting tool but he respectfully declined and said that is not what he signed up to do. He seemed pretty focused in his intentions.

Tillman was the man! ;-D
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Postby Coppermine » Thu May 17, 2007 12:11 pm

Here is a discouraging story from an Army official on Tillman's death.

This is from an interview with ESPN by Lt. Col. Ralph Kauzlarich, the officer who directed the first official inquiry into Tillman's death:

Kauzlarich, now a battalion commanding officer at Fort Riley in Kansas, further suggested the Tillman family's unhappiness with the findings of past investigations might be because of the absence of a Christian faith in their lives.

In an interview with ESPN.com, Kauzlarich said: "When you die, I mean, there is supposedly a better life, right? Well, if you are an atheist and you don't believe in anything, if you die, what is there to go to? Nothing. You are worm dirt. So for their son to die for nothing, and now he is no more — that is pretty hard to get your head around that. So I don't know how an atheist thinks. I can only imagine that that would be pretty tough."

Asked by ESPN.com whether the Tillmans' religious beliefs are a factor in the ongoing investigation, Kauzlarich said, "I think so. There is not a whole lot of trust in the system or faith in the system [by the Tillmans]. So that is my personal opinion, knowing what I know."

Asked what might finally placate the family, Kauzlarich said, "You know what? I don't think anything will make them happy, quite honestly. I don't know. Maybe they want to see somebody's head on a platter. But will that really make them happy? No, because they can't bring their son back."

Kauzlarich, now 40, was the Ranger regiment executive officer in Afghanistan, who played a role in writing the recommendation for Tillman's posthumous Silver Star. And finally, with his fingerprints already all over many of the hot-button issues, including the question of who ordered the platoon to be split as it dragged a disabled Humvee through the mountains, Kauzlarich conducted the first official Army investigation into Tillman's death.

That investigation is among the inquiries that didn't satisfy the Tillman family.

"Well, this guy makes disparaging remarks about the fact that we're not Christians, and the reason that we can't put Pat to rest is because we're not Christians," Mary Tillman, Pat's mother, said in an interview with ESPN.com. Mary Tillman casts the family as spiritual, though she said it does not believe in many of the fundamental aspects of organized religion.

"Oh, it has nothing to do with the fact that this whole thing is shady," she said sarcastically, "But it is because we are not Christians."

After a pause, her voice full with emotion, she added, "Pat may not have been what you call a Christian. He was about the best person I ever knew. I mean, he was just a good guy. He didn't lie. He was very honest. He was very generous. He was very humble. I mean, he had an ego, but it was a healthy ego. It is like, everything those [people] are, he wasn't."


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Postby Tavish » Thu May 17, 2007 12:31 pm

Coppermine wrote:Asked by ESPN.com whether the Tillmans' religious beliefs are a factor in the ongoing investigation, Kauzlarich said, "I think so. There is not a whole lot of trust in the system or faith in the system [by the Tillmans]. So that is my personal opinion, knowing what I know."


Not a lot of trust in the system? Thank you Captain Obvious. Now why in the world would he think the Tillman's don't trust in the system?

A) They are Atheists

or

B) They have been lied to basically every step of the way after their sons death
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Postby josebach » Thu May 17, 2007 12:33 pm

Coppermine wrote:After a pause, her voice full with emotion, she added, "Pat may not have been what you call a Christian. He was about the best person I ever knew. I mean, he was just a good guy. He didn't lie. He was very honest. He was very generous. He was very humble. I mean, he had an ego, but it was a healthy ego. It is like, everything those [people] are, he wasn't."


The only people who think Christians are better people or more moral than non-Christians are Christians.
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Postby knapplc » Thu May 17, 2007 12:42 pm

josebach wrote:
Coppermine wrote:After a pause, her voice full with emotion, she added, "Pat may not have been what you call a Christian. He was about the best person I ever knew. I mean, he was just a good guy. He didn't lie. He was very honest. He was very generous. He was very humble. I mean, he had an ego, but it was a healthy ego. It is like, everything those [people] are, he wasn't."


The only people who think Christians are better people or more moral than non-Christians are Christians.


Couldn't the same be said of every religious belief, not to mention Agnostics and/or Atheists?

"The only people who think Muslims are better people or more moral than non-Muslims are Muslims."

"The only people who think Atheists are better people or more moral than non-Atheists are Atheists."


You're not exactly breaking new ground with this thought, JB. ;-)
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Postby josebach » Thu May 17, 2007 1:53 pm

knapplc wrote:
josebach wrote:
Coppermine wrote:After a pause, her voice full with emotion, she added, "Pat may not have been what you call a Christian. He was about the best person I ever knew. I mean, he was just a good guy. He didn't lie. He was very honest. He was very generous. He was very humble. I mean, he had an ego, but it was a healthy ego. It is like, everything those [people] are, he wasn't."


The only people who think Christians are better people or more moral than non-Christians are Christians.


Couldn't the same be said of every religious belief, not to mention Agnostics and/or Atheists?

"The only people who think Muslims are better people or more moral than non-Muslims are Muslims."

"The only people who think Atheists are better people or more moral than non-Atheists are Atheists."


You're not exactly breaking new ground with this thought, JB. ;-)


Well at least you finally admit you think you're better. ;-)
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Postby knapplc » Thu May 17, 2007 2:09 pm

josebach wrote:
knapplc wrote:
josebach wrote:
Coppermine wrote:After a pause, her voice full with emotion, she added, "Pat may not have been what you call a Christian. He was about the best person I ever knew. I mean, he was just a good guy. He didn't lie. He was very honest. He was very generous. He was very humble. I mean, he had an ego, but it was a healthy ego. It is like, everything those [people] are, he wasn't."


The only people who think Christians are better people or more moral than non-Christians are Christians.


Couldn't the same be said of every religious belief, not to mention Agnostics and/or Atheists?

"The only people who think Muslims are better people or more moral than non-Muslims are Muslims."

"The only people who think Atheists are better people or more moral than non-Atheists are Atheists."


You're not exactly breaking new ground with this thought, JB. ;-)


Well at least you finally admit you think you're better. ;-)


No, I admit that you think I think I'm better, but then we've known that for a while.

The fact is that I am better than most everyone, but it has nothing to do with my faith.

It has everything to do with the fact that I have the two greatest things a man can have in this whole world. This has led to my personal mantra:

knapplc wrote:Some guys, they got the Rico. And that's fine as far as that goes.

But me - I've got the Rico and the Suave.

And it's made all the difference in the world.


That, my friend, is why I'm better than most everyone. :^



And no, I don't take myself seriously in the slightest. I know I'm a dork.
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Postby josebach » Thu May 17, 2007 2:17 pm

Words speak louder than words.





Well, to me that makes sense.
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Postby Coppermine » Thu May 17, 2007 2:45 pm

Uh, I have some Rico and Suave... but probably a little more Rico. But not Rico the Retard. He's out drinking Red Stripe somewhere... ;-7
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