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Mariano Rivera or Eric Gagne

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Postby Transmogrifier » Fri Apr 30, 2004 4:13 pm

I'd take Rivera of 99 over last year's Gagne. And I'll take Rivera of this year over the Gagne of this year. He's not what he was, but that cutter is deadly.
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Postby Absolutely Adequate » Fri Apr 30, 2004 4:19 pm

It depends on the team. Let's say I'm the Yankees and I've got plenty of money to buy the best players. I don't really need a guy that can go out there and pitch all the time. I'll take Mo, because I know that he's battle tested when it comes to the playoffs.

Now, let's say I'm any other team. I need a guy who will be unbelievable in the regular season to make sure that I make the playoffs. I choose Gagne. Because he's more durable and he's fantastic.

Of course, I think the original question is a bit biased. One of the main reasons for choosing Gagne is his durability. You're throwing that right out the window. It's like saying "who would you rather have for one game in which both are healthy: Ken Griffey Jr or Magglio Ordonez." It's impossible to really answer because the question disregards the fact that Gagne can come in and save games 5 times a week.
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Postby stomperrob » Fri Apr 30, 2004 4:24 pm

I have both of them on one of my teams and their numbers ae pretty close this year except for ERA - Rivera takes that hands down, 0.68 to 2.53 for Gagne.
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Postby Transmogrifier » Fri Apr 30, 2004 4:26 pm

Absolutely Adequate wrote:It depends on the team. Let's say I'm the Yankees and I've got plenty of money to buy the best players. I don't really need a guy that can go out there and pitch all the time. I'll take Mo, because I know that he's battle tested when it comes to the playoffs.

Now, let's say I'm any other team. I need a guy who will be unbelievable in the regular season to make sure that I make the playoffs. I choose Gagne. Because he's more durable and he's fantastic.

Of course, I think the original question is a bit biased. One of the main reasons for choosing Gagne is his durability. You're throwing that right out the window. It's like saying "who would you rather have for one game in which both are healthy: Ken Griffey Jr or Magglio Ordonez." It's impossible to really answer because the question disregards the fact that Gagne can come in and save games 5 times a week.


Good points, AA. It's like people saying that if they had to pick any pitcher for one game, it's Pedro. Well, the belies the fact that he's not healthy.... (the 99/00 Pedro, likely...)
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Postby sinicalypse » Fri Apr 30, 2004 4:38 pm

i'm inclined to say rivera here. i think gagne is the better closer, but going into the season i tagged rivera as the best fantasy closer because i figure he's going to get a great deal of saveops and be a lock for 40+ with solid ERA/WHIP numbers to boot.

really, i think they're #1 and #2 for closers in teh game, depending on how you rank them... sure rivera is older and has been on the DL more lately... but at hte same time, doesnt gagne have some medically-placed tendons wrapped around his arm? i swear he blew it out after sucking as a starter then developed a meanstreak and started closing games.. still tho, i dont deny it, gagne > rivera in my world. 60something straight saveops converted? can't top that.

nonetheless, i think the yankees are both going to win more games than the dodgers and give rivera more saveops than the dodgers will give gagne. that and rivera seems to be immune to the typical closer pitfall of blowing games when you come in and its not a saveop. wasn't gagne like 0-2 last year? i think thats hte case, but still, without having empirical statistical evidence that says so, i really think that rivera is going to have more opportunities and more saves than gagne when its all said and done, so for that reason alone, i rank him as the #1 fantasy closer above gagne, even tho i think gagne is the better closer to have in the real life game.

does that make cents? =D
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Postby Rkiivs » Fri Apr 30, 2004 5:10 pm

jeffc_76 wrote:...Gagne has been impressive but as someone said in another post, nobody knows how he would perform in a pressure cooker situation...


I can tell you how Gagne would perform. Gentleman, may I direct your attention to the 2003 All-Star game?

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Postby LBJackal » Fri Apr 30, 2004 5:18 pm

LOL, there was no pressure on him. It's a game for fun, not a real one. The Dodger's didn't have a chance in hell of making the World Series.

How about 69 saves in a row? Not too shabby. Not to mention his record setting K/9 last year of 15. How you would want ANY closer other than him is beyond me. You can't get any better than his 2003 season.
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Postby fezzik » Fri Apr 30, 2004 5:44 pm

No contest in my mind. Gagne. Sure, this year he hasn't been as dominant, but I've watched his outings and his stuff is still filthy. With closers I think whip is very important since it's crucial not to let runners get on base. Nobody's whip will be better than Gagne's come September. Closing and pressure are inherently linked. He's already shown he can handle the pressure of finishing off a game 69 times in a row. ;-D
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Postby jpbusta » Fri Apr 30, 2004 5:46 pm

Gagne. Rivera does have some great stuff but gagne is THE CLOSER. :-D
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Postby WharfRat » Fri Apr 30, 2004 5:56 pm

jpbusta wrote:Gagne. Rivera does have some great stuff but gagne is THE CLOSER. :-D


As I mentioned in the Least Favorite Player thread when this first came up--It's been said (by ballplayers, not just Yankee fans), that Rivera's cutter is the most un-hittable pitch in Baseball.

I think Gagne has the edge, but if you take Gagne at his peak and Mo at his peak, Mo has a SLIGHT edge.
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