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For everyone out there holding on to Nomar.....

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Postby Transmogrifier » Thu Apr 29, 2004 9:43 am

KULCAT wrote:
wrveres wrote:
Great Scott(i)! wrote:
thehat wrote:Nomar has always played every play and every AB like it's his last one. That's one reason Red Sox fans like the guy so much. Therefore, the fact it's his walk year means zilch.


I disagree, at least about the latter part of what you had to say. Contract years mean big numbers, almost always. Nomar isn't outside this because he plays any harder than anyone else. I'd say his contract being up has a ton to do with it, concidering he won't be returning to the Red Sox.


contract years mean zilch, zip, nada ....


there will be probably 250-300 free agents this offseason. According to you. They all should have career years, almost always right? The facts show otherwise


And about 90% of those free agents arent playing for a 12-14 million dollar pay day and get some respect back after their club shopped him around. Ill take Sparky Anderson´s "gimme 25 guys on a contract year...." line over the "facts" any day


Nomar will be fine. The contract year thing is a myth--he'll do well because he's a very good player.

What baffles me is that you are so quick to disregard facts for the words of someone you like/respect. If Sparky Anderson said "Johnny Damon is the current President of the United States," you'd believe him?
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Postby jebatzel » Thu Apr 29, 2004 10:48 am

Nomar Garciaparra - SS - Red Sox Apr. 29 - 7:25 am et


Nomar Garciaparra is scheduled to have his Achilles tendon re-evaluated on Monday.
The Red Sox have asked Nomar to take it slow. They don't want any flare-ups of tendinitis as he continues to take ground balls.
Source: Boston Herald
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Postby Nails » Thu Apr 29, 2004 10:59 am

Has anyone thought that maybe his injury isn't quite as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Maybe he is just pissed off at the Red Sox for trying to get rid of him and he is milking this injury for all it is worth. That doesn't necessarily sound like something that Nomar would do, but then again I don't know him personally. I am jsut saying that it is possible.
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Postby redsoxfan » Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:46 am

nah tendinitis is hoprrible i had it in my wrist when i was younger. It hurt everytime i moved my wrist and it was just awful. Its not one of those injuries where you can take some medicne and get over it either. Basically you just have to stop using doing whatever is causing it. For me i had to stop druming for 4 months before it didn't hurt to play again. I don't think Nomar is overplaying he injury.
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Postby KULCAT » Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:48 am

I will repeat my point that Nomar has not declined the past two years and you cannot say as you did that "Nomar´s game has been in decline the past few year" 2000 was 4 years ago and I already stated that he is not the same player that he was before the injury
.

So what exactly are we discussing here? Im saying he´s in decline BECAUSE of the injury


2002 2003

BA .310 .301
OBP .352 .345
SLG .528 .524
Runs 101 120
RBI 120 105
SB 5 19
HR 24 28


In a 5x5 league his value went up in 2003. In a 4x4 league it stayed pretty much the same as it did in a points league (depending on the scoring system that you use).

So he went down in everything except runs and h´rs? Good thing he showed a little more pop but the runs thats has to do more with that lineup he was in. check out he´s splits of runners in scoring position too. I dont believe you can use 2 years in a row as evidence for a player being solid or dependable and even more if the first year is better than the second

Infinity is right that you cannot determine his value until we see how he comes back from this injury.


Nobody knows how he´s coming backand i didnt say he was gonna tear up the league. What i said is that he had some motivating factors that might help him out. If he gets hurt again that wont matter. I really dont think anyone here needed to be told by Infinity that players that come out of the DL dont usually come out banging
Your error KULCAT is that you cannot simply assume that he will decline because there is nothing in his history to suggest this.
[/quote]

I really dont get you. If we already stablished that he´s not the same player he was before the injury that would make 99 and 00 his peaks years and if wont get to those levels again then his career is in decline. I think your error is that you believe im stating that he´s gonna start hitting .220 now and i never said that. Just that i wouldnt be surprised if in subsequent years his average starts dipping slowly into the .290-.280 range. Thats is not a violent decline but its still declining
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Postby KULCAT » Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:49 am

Mookie4ever wrote:
KULCAT wrote:If you look at 2000(his last year fully healthy)


Where does this come from?

2002 he had 635 AB - which was 7th in MLB
in 2003 he had 658 AB - which was 5th in MLB[/quote
]

Before the injury man, thats what we were talking about remember? Not being the same AFTER the injury
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Postby KULCAT » Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:55 am

Nomar will be fine. The contract year thing is a myth--he'll do well because he's a very good player.


Of course its a good player and he will do well what im saying is that his contract situation might motivate him even more. I dont know what is so strange about this statement.

What baffles me is that you are so quick to disregard facts for the words of someone you like/respect. If Sparky Anderson said "Johnny Damon is the current President of the United States," you'd believe him?
[/quote]
What the hell does that has to do with anything? was he speaking about politics? No, he was speaking about BASEBALL and baseball players behavior. And if you wanna talk about facts, a FACT here is that Sparky Anderson knows much more about baseball than you and i.
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Postby Transmogrifier » Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:18 pm

KULCAT wrote:
Transmogrifier wrote:Nomar will be fine. The contract year thing is a myth--he'll do well because he's a very good player.


Of course its a good player and he will do well what im saying is that his contract situation might motivate him even more. I dont know what is so strange about this statement.

Transmogrifier wrote:What baffles me is that you are so quick to disregard facts for the words of someone you like/respect. If Sparky Anderson said "Johnny Damon is the current President of the United States," you'd believe him?


What the hell does that has to do with anything? was he speaking about politics? No, he was speaking about BASEBALL and baseball players behavior. And if you wanna talk about facts, a FACT here is that Sparky Anderson knows much more about baseball than you and i.


The contract situation "might" motivate him? But what about the other couple hundred in the same situation. Might it motivate them? The point is, considering all the players in the final year of the contract, many of them will do very well this year. Saying that the cause of that is the contract situation is a logical fallacy.

My point was not that Sparky Anderson is ill-equipped to speak about baseball, but just because he knows a lot about baseball doesn't mean he's right.

For example, Joe Morgan, an avowed baseball expert, stated repeatedly that Billy Beane wrote Moneyball.

The facts refuting Anderson's comments are clear an undeniable.
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Postby Amazinz » Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:37 pm

The contract year myth cannot be proven or disproven. If anyone disagrees point us to a study that definitively proves otherwise.
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Postby KULCAT » Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:39 pm

The contract situation "might" motivate him? But what about the other couple hundred in the same situation. Might it motivate them? The point is, considering all the players in the final year of the contract, many of them will do very well this year. Saying that the cause of that is the contract situation is a logical fallacy
.

Oh yeah i forget about those couple of hundreds SS looking for a 12-14 million dollar long term contract and that were ones one of the elite players in the game yet were being shopped around by their team to get a player that basically lobbied to steal their job and makes 3 times than all of them. This is were your logiv fails big time. Its not the same is it?

My point was not that Sparky Anderson is ill-equipped to speak about baseball, but just because he knows a lot about baseball doesn't mean he's right.


No it doesnt, maybe his wrong. But you put up his word against the one of some faceless poster who i dont know anything about well its not really a tough decision for me.
For example, Joe Morgan, an avowed baseball expert, stated repeatedly that Billy Beane wrote Moneyball.

The facts refuting Anderson's comments are clear an undeniable.
[/quote]

says who? Listen im getting pretty sicked of watching how people here talk about baseball players as video games players or robots. You people have absolutely no respect for the mental aspect of baseball. That just shows me that after years of playing fantasy baseball you dont know much about the game but you do know a lot about stats. Ive been playing fantasy baseball for 6 years and ive gotten to know a lot about OBP´s and OPS and Bpi´s etc. But what i know about baseball i learned by playing semi pro bowl in panama and venezuela. Some comments you have made like the 2º inning is worth the same as the 9º inning would get you laughed at in a dogout. thats just not the way baseball is played. When you played baseball you look for anything to motivate you. Usually fighting for you job does that. The way you talk about it is like there are no such things as intimidation by a pitcher. Or that when you are on a streak your not thinking about you splits vs right handed hitters, youre thinking you own anyone outthere. There are a million thing people like you cant explain in baseball. Why did the angels won the world series? Make an statistical analysis of that team and tell me why didnt the Yanks beat them? Why does a team that wins 118 games does not win the world series?

Same thing with clutch argument. i mean, you gonna tell me a ball player is not think about how big the 9º inning of a game is just because you say the early innings are played exactly the same way. Crank up all the numbers that you want pal, thats just not true.
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