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Kaz Mat..........question

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Postby Hyde » Sun Apr 25, 2004 8:35 pm

First off, Japanese players are over hyped. Until they play a year in MLB, you really don't know what to expect. Hedeki Matsui hit tons of homers in Japan and he can barely hit more home runs than Luis Castillo. I don't care how many bags Kaz stole in Japan, until he starts stealing in MLB, I have to think he won't steal many. If Kaz is actually fast and Art Howe isn't running him, then Art Howe should be fired tomorrow, if you have speed on the bases you sure as hell use it.
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Postby Melo255 » Sun Apr 25, 2004 8:37 pm

Captain Crash wrote:
Amazinz wrote:It may be backwards logic from your perspective. But Howe is far less aggressive when the offense is struggling. Two, it depends on what side of the fence you sit on concerning how valuable SBs are and how detrimental they can be to weak offenses.


Huh? What? This is absolute horsecrap. I disagree completely with both points, and I don't think most people will even need me to explain why.


No explanation needed. Your right, it is horsecrap.
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Postby Amazinz » Sun Apr 25, 2004 8:41 pm

Hyde wrote:First off, Japanese players are over hyped. Until they play a year in MLB, you really don't know what to expect. Hedeki Matsui hit tons of homers in Japan and he can barely hit more home runs than Luis Castillo.


Perhaps but nobody is debating that so it's a little OT.

Hyde wrote:I don't care how many bags Kaz stole in Japan, until he starts stealing in MLB, I have to think he won't steal many.


I agree.

Hyde wrote:If Kaz is actually fast and Art Howe isn't running him, then Art Howe should be fired tomorrow, if you have speed on the bases you sure as hell use it.


Using speed on the bases doesn't necessarily mean stealing bases. Being fast and a good base runner (which Kaz is) doesn't necessarily translate into being a good base stealer.
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Postby Amazinz » Sun Apr 25, 2004 8:45 pm

Melo255 wrote:No explanation needed. Your right, it is horsecrap.


Excellent another post by Melon that serves no purpose other than to raise his post count. We didn't already have enough of those.
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Postby Melo255 » Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:02 pm

It's Melo not Melon. Good eyes. I wasn't aware that my posts had to be multiple pages in length. I agree with what Captain Crash said completely and I didn't feel the need to elaborate further however I did think a small post saying that I also felt the same was perfectly acceptable. My apologies sir for not living up to your expectations. And by the way how many thousands of posts have you seen that are made up of just a smiley or a small I agree have you seen?
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Postby Amazinz » Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:04 pm

I apologize, Melo. I just think if you're going to say that my opinion is horsecrap than I at least deserve an explanation of why it's so worthless.
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Postby Melo255 » Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:24 pm

I also offer my own apology. I get a bit nasty when the sun goes down, maybe I'm a vampire, it would explain things. I'll explain my opinion very quickly. I don't understand how it can detrimental to a weak offense to have stolen bases. I understand this is just my opinion yet I cannot grasp how runners turning singles into doubles and getting themselves in scoring position is detrimental...unless you mean the occasional caught stealing which would obviously take a potential run off of the basepaths. I don't know much of anything about Howe but almost every major league club runs more when their offense is struggling not vice-versa. Maybe he just goes by a different set of ideas but it seems to me that this runs in the face of established tried and true management tactics-namely creating scoring oppurtunities and trying to eliminate the oh so annoying double play possibility. Granted different teams have different opinions on the value ob the SB. Florida obviously loves it and it works great for them. Boston and New York don't have much need for it due to home run power at almost every position 1-9 in the lineup but even these clubs use it when the situation presents itself, for example in an extra innings game when one run is all you need or something like Pedro vs Brown where runs are almost impossible to come by. I've about lost track of where I was going with this and I'm too tired to read through it all and steer myself back. My apologies again and I hope this explains my crude first post position.

It may be backwards logic from your perspective. But Howe is far less aggressive when the offense is struggling. Two, it depends on what side of the fence you sit on concerning how valuable SBs are and how detrimental they can be to weak offenses
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Postby T-Bone Costanza » Sun Apr 25, 2004 11:18 pm

Art Howe barely even physically moves when they show him in the dugout, let alone provide some excitement like a stolen base game. His head looks like an Easter Island statue.
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Postby Captain Crash » Mon Apr 26, 2004 12:03 am

Melo255 wrote:I also offer my own apology. I get a bit nasty when the sun goes down, maybe I'm a vampire, it would explain things. I'll explain my opinion very quickly. I don't understand how it can detrimental to a weak offense to have stolen bases. I understand this is just my opinion yet I cannot grasp how runners turning singles into doubles and getting themselves in scoring position is detrimental...unless you mean the occasional caught stealing which would obviously take a potential run off of the basepaths. I don't know much of anything about Howe but almost every major league club runs more when their offense is struggling not vice-versa. Maybe he just goes by a different set of ideas but it seems to me that this runs in the face of established tried and true management tactics-namely creating scoring oppurtunities and trying to eliminate the oh so annoying double play possibility. Granted different teams have different opinions on the value ob the SB. Florida obviously loves it and it works great for them. Boston and New York don't have much need for it due to home run power at almost every position 1-9 in the lineup but even these clubs use it when the situation presents itself, for example in an extra innings game when one run is all you need or something like Pedro vs Brown where runs are almost impossible to come by. I've about lost track of where I was going with this and I'm too tired to read through it all and steer myself back. My apologies again and I hope this explains my crude first post position.


True, it's called manufacturing runs and it is done from Little League on up...
Yes, there are managers that are far more passive, like Earl Weaver used to be - waiting for the three-run home run... But I don't know of any situation where it would be advantageous to get more passive when the offense is struggling. Bunt runners over, take the extra base, attempt a double steal, try to make things happen. What do they say? Speed never slumps. Well, that may not be altogether true, but it has to be easier to manufacture a run with Kaz Matsui than say Tony Clark...
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Postby timely » Mon Apr 26, 2004 1:19 am

Wow, so many opinions I don`t know where to start. I do not think there is any universal theory on the value of stolen bases. Personally I think base stealing is risky. It is the role of 3rd and 4th batters to bring runners in and so stealing is not neccesary for the lead off hitters. Then it can be argued that stealing takes the pressure of clean up hitters and they dont need to worry about the risk of hitting in to double plays and that they dont need to swing for the fence to drive a run in. Then there is an argument that it is a dangerous way of giving the pitcher a cheap out if it doesnt come off, and allows starters to pitch deeper into games, thus making it easier for rlievers and closers etc. About 5 solid arguments can be made for either side. Same goes for bunting to advance runners etc. Hard to say there is right or wrong way, rather it`s simply a coaching philosophy. Well, yet again it seems I`ve managed to type 100 words without giving an opinion.

I do however have a Kaz/Ichiro comparison. I have posted it somewhere else, but cannot remember where, so here it is briefly again. 5/6 years before coming to the majors, Kaz stole 61 bases(140 games) in the Japanese leagues, so he definately has the speed and ability, yet he only stole 13 last year as he was focusing on his hitting and neglecting his running, in preparation for his jump across to the states.
Ichiro too stole around 50 bases 5 years before he left japan, but less than 22 in each of his final 3 seasons. It just demonstrates that Kaz seems to have higher stealing potential than ichiro...on paper anyway judging from Japanese stats.

In a nutshell, Kaz can do, it he has just started badly, dont write him of yet, he should come through with the steals in time. There alot more teams in the majors than in japan, so alot more catchers with various strength arms and alot more pitchers with various actions and pick off moves. It is natural to expect a period of adjustment, short or long, we will see. As I have said before, Ichiro didnt need long to adjust, hideki seemed to need quite a while, kaz....who knows.

I have seen him play in japan quite alot, have faith. The Mets wouldn`t have pursued him so strongly (and moved Reyes) if they weren`t sure he could do it....or would they???
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