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BALCO admits giving steroids...

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Postby tmoney » Sun Apr 25, 2004 7:59 pm

Amazinz wrote:
eftda wrote:Just Remember that there are other player who took Roids. ;-)

If you said Bonds should be banned or a * should go next to his name means that every player who took drugs to help them play better should have the same thing. Maybe 40-50% of the players in the Majors have taken Roids...


This is a fair point but until everything is resolved Bonds will be the poster child because of his success.


;-D Was just thinking the same thing. What do you want people to do when they have a conversation about roids? Want them to list every player who may have taken them and say it applies to all of them? That would take a lof of time. It is easier to just use Bonds and assume whatever happens to him will happen to everyone.
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Postby jeffc_76 » Sun Apr 25, 2004 8:01 pm

Really wouldn't cost that much, especially to players making millions. Before last year, when testing became a hot issue, there was no reason for MLB players to try to conceal steroid use by using unknown chemicals like THG. They could just get well known steroids with proven effectiveness from Mexico or elsewhere VERY cheap. THG might have been expensive because it was new and supposedly undetectable but it also might have been completely useless.
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Postby BGbootha » Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:02 pm

i am so sick of hearing the excuses for this. "it wasn't against baseball rules" who cares. it was against the law. But hey, i mean it should be ok if willie mays wanted to go out on the mound right before Barry tied him, and simply shot the guy. I mean the rules say nothing about murder.

I am sure the same argument would stand here right. It wasn't against baseball's rules.
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Postby Amazinz » Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:08 pm

Hey BGBootha, I agree with you to a point but I don't think it's a good comparison to compare murder and abusing one's own body with steroids. :-b
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Postby Bukoski77 » Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:23 pm

BGbootha wrote:i am so sick of hearing the excuses for this. "it wasn't against baseball rules" who cares. it was against the law. But hey, i mean it should be ok if willie mays wanted to go out on the mound right before Barry tied him, and simply shot the guy. I mean the rules say nothing about murder.

I am sure the same argument would stand here right. It wasn't against baseball's rules.


To give an extreme literal example your right. Willie would prevent Bonds from passing Ruth and Aaron. Case closed not to be discussed until the next guy approaches the mark.

I dont agree in my personal life that something not illegal under the rules of a sport I play means I should get away with it even if it is illegal. I'm also not going to tell, hypothetical from here, a hispanic that although he consulted a doctor and used roids legaly and with medical advise within his country, he cant play in America where roids are illegal, but baseball ignored for the last 10 or so years.

You can see my earlier post on this thread for how I feel about it.

Also getting a little off baseball talk, the beauty of our law is that it can be changed. I support sports attempting to ban and test for them but feel steroids should be decriminalized.

So any athlete that had a drink during the prohibition years should have all there stats and records nullified because even though it wasnt against baseball's rules, it was against the "law"?
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Postby ajgnydc722 » Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:27 pm

tmoney wrote:
ajgdrummer7 wrote:Giambi is jacked and looks like a monster but I don't feel that he's guilty as much as I do for Bonds. Giambi doesn't hit 70 homeruns or just put on ridiculous displays as Bonds has. Giambi isn't over 35 and still crushing the ball with each swing. Giambi is in his early 30's and hitting just around 40 homeruns. The same is done by Jim Thome, Richie Sexson, Brian Giles, Lance Berkman, and many, MANY more.

Maybe I'm a little partial to Giambi but it doesn't seem like he's that guilty to me.


So now Giambi is not guilty of steroids, he is only guilty of not being as good of a baseball player as Bonds? Just because Giambi is not capable of hitting 70+ homeruns because of his talent, does not mean he is less guilty. He is just as guilty as the others if proven, it is just not as much of a dramatic case to talk about as it is with Bonds.


I'm not saying that at all. Maybe it's just that Giambi is nowhere near the player Bonds with off roids.

However consider this...Bonds hit 73 homeruns in 2001. Since then he has been walked more than any other time in his career. Before 2001 Bonds normally hit 40-45 homeruns. Now he is doing the same. AND ALSO DRAWING 200 WALKS. I believe that if Bonds was pitched to every at-bat he'd crush 80 homeruns, maybe more. I'm not saying at all that Giambi is innocent because he doesn't do the same things as Bonds, just that his numbers are not mind-boggling as Bonds' are. That's all.
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Postby jeffc_76 » Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:51 pm

Bukoski77 wrote:Also getting a little off baseball talk, the beauty of our law is that it can be changed. I support sports attempting to ban and test for them but feel steroids should be decriminalized.


Agree 100%. People should have the right to decide for themselves if they want to take a chance with steroids. Steroids only get bad press but it is entirely possible that there may be safe levels to take especially if it was done under the guidance of a doctor. I've checked into andro and other prohormones (prosteroids) which are currently legal and anyone who takes steroids will tell you that they can give you the same side effects as real steroids but probably with less gains. So, we currently allow the sale of things that are arguably equally dangerous and less effective to steroids. Not consistent.

But to be fair, public funds shouldn't be used to treat someone if his testicles shrivel up or he grows breats. Then again, public funds shouldn't be used when someone is dying of lung cancer, emphysema, or liver disease after abusing their bodies in other ways.
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Postby wrveres » Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:38 am

Baseballer02 wrote:What I think is funny is that before, Bonds supporters were always "There's no proof he used steroids!!." But now that this has been released, it's now "Well....they weren't banned at the time!!!."


Do you guys believe everything you read in the paper? Or just what you want? This same joke of a newspaper, the chronical came out with the same accusations two months ago, and not one other newspaper was able to confirm it. The federal government has been investigating Barry Bonds for two years. The Undercover agent who wore the tap came out and said so himself. So for the last two years, they have no evidence on Barry himself. ZIP, NADA. All circumstanial. Doesn't that strike anybody kinda funny? The federal government might as well have busted Barry's gardner for dope smoking and claimed that dope helps Barry relax more at the plate more. Maybe if they got his maid on a crystal meth charge they could claim that Barry must have used it too, thats how come his bat is so fast !! Give me a break. Two years? And the only "Evidence" they have is leeks by an unnamed source, off an IRS agents "unrecorded" converstaion. And how come he/she just happens to leak it to the newspaper that has spurned Barry his entire career?


Just so we are up to speed .... This is the "New News"


Opening Paragraph of Contra Costa Times wrote:A report that is said to name more than 20 athletes, including Giants star Barry Bonds and Olympic sprinter Marion Jones, as receiving steroids from Burlingame's Balco Laboratories has set the stage for a courtroom battle over a federal investigator's allegations


The report has been the apparent source of leaks, identifying Bonds and other baseball players of having received banned drugs, as well as a magazine article's characterization of Conte as having confessed to authorities


The Mercury News has learned that the document summarizes an Internal Revenue Service investigator's interview of Balco president Victor Conte Jr.


Many of the athletes named, testified last year before a grand jury investigating Balco. So far, no athletes have been charged


Anything you say can and will be used against you wrote:"Mr. Conte adamantly denies any discussion with any agent concerning the steroid use of any specific track-and-field athlete or baseball player. It is fabrication.""It is Mr. Conte's adamant contention that he told the agents that he had no knowledge of Anderson's relationships with any specific baseball players regarding steroids. Again, fabrication."


Contra Costa Times wrote:"The government comes in on this kind of an investigation with 25 or more agents, they come in with scientists, with helicopters, guns and flak jackets, but they somehow forget to bring a tape recorder," Holley said. "So that any statements which are made or any comments which are made or not made, they are able to put their own spin on it."


And now all the major presses are running with this as some major breaking news. I hope that once this clears, that there are a few "defamation of character" lawsuits filed at a certain newspaper. anybody know one in particular? ;-)
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Postby Amazinz » Mon Apr 26, 2004 10:38 am

There were two newspapers: San Fransisco Chronicle & San Jose Mercury news.
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Postby eftda » Mon Apr 26, 2004 5:52 pm

Amazinz wrote:There were two newspapers: San Fransisco Chronicle & San Jose Mercury news.


I get the mercury, and can someone tell me where it says he took Roids... I can't seem to find it. Even Skip Bayless (Barry Bonds's Darth Vader) can't even prove he took roids...


Get over it, and find something better to do then blaming others
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