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Mark McGwire... You Decide

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Postby Baseballer02 » Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:02 am

Image

Aye, aye captain!!!! [/url]
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Postby dewey » Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:12 am

Well explain to me how he hit 49 homers shattering the rookie record?He obviously was not on roids then!
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Postby Liberty30 » Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:13 am

Baseballer02 wrote:Image

Aye, aye captain!!!! [/url]


Image

Over and out brother.
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Postby wrveres » Sun Apr 18, 2004 2:40 am

dewey wrote:Well explain to me how he hit 49 homers shattering the rookie record?He obviously was not on roids then!


because steriods don't help you hit homeruns ...

the hypocrisy in this thread is killing me ...

If it was Barry, the insults would be flying ...
And I am pretty sure I saw someone start quoting the bible in this thread.


what a joke ....

Mark was an admitted junkie and he gets a pass, but yet Barry gets "tarred and feathered" because of who he associated with?
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Postby Neo » Sun Apr 18, 2004 2:55 am

dewey wrote:Well explain to me how he hit 49 homers shattering the rookie record?He obviously was not on roids then!



What he said ;-D


Maybe he did , maybe he didnt, but taking andro or steroids doesnt automatically guarantee a huge homerun total at the end of the season, like him or not he had talent.Is it really so far strecthed that someone who had that many homers in his rookie year(and looking so tiny) was able to have such great homerun totals later in his career????
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Postby Slapweasel » Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:01 am

Bullsh*t. Pure and utter Bullsh*t. Being stronger does not make you hit the ball further? Sell that stupid argument to someone who still plays 'Candyland'.

I don't know who is taking steriods. I don't know all the effects of steroids. I don't even know if i did my own taxes correctly, but I can fu**ing tell you that steriods make you stronger.

They don't make you a better hitter. It is clear that talent is the simple explanation for a good hitter's batting eye. Studying and playing make you a better hitter.

If you're going to tell me that 20-30 extra feet don't make a major-leaguer, I'm going to flatten you. You and your "warning-track-power". Stop your bullsh*t.

Listen... I get the fact that pure hitters are born and honed by good coaching. I also get the fact that fans are accusing some players of cheating, that never did. I don't get the argument that steroids don't increase statistics.

I have no idea who took steroids, but I don't want my kid to think that it is the way to go.

I have seen players grow due to dieticians and strength training. I have seen my own friends work out and eat wacky things on their way to becoming 'huge'. I have also seen B.A.L.C.O. try to find supplements that circumvent what the good old U.S. of A. and the Olympic Committee sees as illegal.

Although I find the government to be the bureaucracy that drops many balls, ironically I cannot see the error in having future studies by independant organizations.

Lyle Alzado was as much of an expert on steroids as I am on womens' issues. Neither of us has any credibiltiy.

If the government came out against oranges, wheat bread and bananas, we'd have a different viewpoint on "cheaters". Wheat bread is man-made, for Christ's sake!

...on a different note: "Weed" is natural. Beer is legal. We've got a problem, Houston.
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Postby mtarail » Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:42 am

This brings up a lot of conflicting ideas.

1st, since andro wasn't a banned substance in MLB I'm not gonna hate on McGuire for using it. And a far as his not hiding it--if anything I'm glad to know that he wasn't ashamed of what he was doing. I'd have a lot bigger problem with what he did if there was some evidence that he knew or thought that what he did was wrong.

2nd, obviously this issue is only relevant because of the Balco situation. so let's just remember that even if it is found that major leaguers were using a synthetic steroid there will still be issues about the legality of the synthetic substance. If the Justice Department actually gets bored enough to attempt criminal prosecutions they will have an EXTREMELY difficult time showing that players knowingly took an illegal substance.

3rd, yes I think it is totally hippocritical that a guy that has openly admitted to using a substance that--at the least--has steroid-like effects has never faced much heat, yet some of the alleged BALCO folks--Barry in particular--have been all but prosecuted already by the media. ESPN already has guys mentioning the possible asterisking of his records. Yet none of the people saying this mention doing anything about McGuire's old records.
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Postby AcidRock23 » Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:16 am

I think that this is the crux of this whole issue. If they are not taking something illegal, they are not going to be found 'guilty' of anything in a court. Maybe baseball can try to mandate some kind of more flexible type of regulation but that will be almost impossible as an 'illegal' substance will have to be described and that's when the 'bad guy' chemists will simply make an analogous substance that is not the banned substance that does the same thing. I am certain that any player messing around w/ his chemistry is going to be cognizant of this. Jeez, they pay their agents big money, they probably look this stuff up for them, to make sure it's not on 'the list'.

If the Balco thing goes to court or is reviewed by a legislative committee, they are going to conclude that people had done some things in the past that MAY be illegal now but they are going to have a hard time finding any kind of charges that will stick. This is a legal grey area and that while as a fan, it's VERY tempting to point fingers, it is very hard to say who may have done what wrong when.

mtarail wrote:2nd, obviously this issue is only relevant because of the Balco situation. so let's just remember that even if it is found that major leaguers were using a synthetic steroid there will still be issues about the legality of the synthetic substance. If the Justice Department actually gets bored enough to attempt criminal prosecutions they will have an EXTREMELY difficult time showing that players knowingly took an illegal substance.

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Postby jeffc_76 » Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:27 pm

Slapweasel wrote:...on a different note: "Weed" is natural. Beer is legal. We've got a problem, Houston.


coke is natural. So is ricin for that matter.
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Postby SoxFanPJ » Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:48 pm

So we know Big Mac took Andro. Andro chemically is a steroid precurser, the theory is that the body can take this chemical and turn it into a steroid.

My guess is that Mac also took a boat load of other supplements from Creatine, HMB, Andro etc. To pack on the muscle while he was working out.

If you look at him genetically he has a large frame and had the room to grow. Whether or not he did this through working out, diet and tons of supplements or whether he did it through working out and taking 'roids is impossible to know for sure.

11 Years is plenty of time to pack on mass, you can put on 10 pounds of muscle in a year easy. Especially if all you have to do is play baseball, workout and eat.

Since he retired its pretty easy to lose muscle mass, I guarantee he is not working out as hard, probably focusing on taking off mass specifically to take pressure off his knee.
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