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Is Dusty Baker the Starting Pitcher Killer?

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Postby la dodgers » Sun Apr 18, 2004 1:29 am

diesel99xx wrote:Typical Cub fan response.


im not a cubs fan but this post of urs really lets me know that i really dont like u
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Postby eftda » Sun Apr 18, 2004 1:30 am

BostonBob44 wrote:"You owe me a save Baker" Joe B after tonight's debacle :-t :~( :-P


Sorry Joe... :,-(
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Postby Los Angeles Cubs » Sun Apr 18, 2004 1:35 am

eftda wrote:
BostonBob44 wrote:"You owe me a save Baker" Joe B after tonight's debacle :-t :~( :-P


Sorry Joe... :,-(


Oh yeah, sorry for making a decision. 162 games and a closer pitches maybe 45 and pitches maybe 46 innings. Big, needed apology.
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Postby Los Angeles Cubs » Sun Apr 18, 2004 1:36 am

la dodgers wrote:
diesel99xx wrote:Typical Cub fan response.


im not a cubs fan but this post of urs really lets me know that i really dont like u


I agree with him. That post you made, diesel, was really really thoughtless and useless.
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Postby diesel99xx » Sun Apr 18, 2004 7:04 am

Well look at what i responded to before making your statement.
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Postby diesel99xx » Sun Apr 18, 2004 7:09 am

And 2nd of all,this post was to bring up the point that if i was a cub fan i would be concerned, with the extra luggage on the arm's of prior,wood and zambrano, i would be careful of not letting them go to deep in the pitch count, which i believe has an long term effect on the pitcher.
I'm not bashing the Cubs in any way.
As Cub's fans would you rather have a healthy pitching staff or one that has 2-3 starters on the DL?
That is my point, and he should have brought in Joe B and the end of the game,this early in the season why let wood go so long, and he should have def brought in Boro after Wood put 2 guys on base.
That makes sense right?
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Postby AcidRock23 » Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:06 am

In terms of the 'pitcher killer theory' (PKT?), and having watched the game, I would have to say that Wood looked physically fine, he was still throwing very well. I think that he lost it mentally though w/ those questionable calls. In the bottom of the 9th, the ump called a strike or two that were CLEARLY outside of where Woods pitches were.

A lot of times, it's easy to second guess what sort of decisions are going on but Wood has had surgery and I would have to presume that he is acutely conscious of the risks of blowing his arm out and is not going to stay out there 'too long'. I am also sure that Baker, who would have been exposed to all manner of injuries both as a player and as a manager, would ALSO be aware of those risks and would not push somebody to do something he can't do.

While being left in can be a hazard, it is ALSO a statistical 'consequence' of pitching well. While I am a bit apprehensive about Prior and have to wonder what the hell is really wrong with him, 10 pitches/ game amounts to about 1 inning-- particularly w/ Wood and Zambrano who do tend to strike themselves out of jams more often than Prior has to.

In terms of the GAME, however, I think that as the manager/ ex-player, you have to realize that a fresh arm in the 9th inning is going to have some advantages. I don't think he's a 'pitcher killer', I think he blew a game. It's a long season though...
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Postby Rkiivs » Sun Apr 18, 2004 10:29 am

thetruth wrote:no. i think pitch count is overrated.


A pitch count should be taken into consideration, but I don't believe every pitcher should be held to the same standard pitch count. Some pitchers can regularly throw 110-120 pitches and some can't (:cough: Pedro). So, it's a subjective attribute.
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Postby HOOTIE » Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:23 pm

Rkiivs wrote:
thetruth wrote:no. i think pitch count is overrated.


A pitch count should be taken into consideration, but I don't believe every pitcher should be held to the same standard pitch count. Some pitchers can regularly throw 110-120 pitches and some can't (:cough: Pedro). So, it's a subjective attribute.


Nobody knows which pitchers can take it and which pitchers can't. That's the problem. Baker is by far the worst mgr on pitch counts.

Wood when he was 18 threw 175 back to back. One only has to look at his rebuilt arm and wonder.
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Postby AcidRock23 » Sun Apr 18, 2004 7:19 pm

...and there's ANOTHER game blown w/ goofy manager stuff today. Admittedly, Farnsworth blew the weaker hitters away and had the meaty ones coming up but I would have put his heat-- not to mention his body slamming ability-- up against the Reds. Maybe he needs a TV in the dugout?

While Farnsworth WAS on fire but, perhaps thinking he can 'boost' Borowski's morale (I think that that figures into a lot of Dusty's flakier decisions...), he sticks Borowski in there and he gets nailed. Not to mention how long Maddux was hung out to get shelled too, pulling Bako who had the first multihit game he's had for a while...the list of wacky stuff goes on.

Maybe, as far as killing pitchers, he has overly inflated expectations about what they can or can't do. I hope that this dose of Red realism will get through to him!!
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