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Jamie Moyer too old?

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Postby Green Monstah » Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:06 am

did Maddux ever have incredible pitches though heither? He got batter out with incredible control and by getting ahead in the count quickly to gain the upper hand. Just because you don't have a wide array of pitches doesn't make you a bad pitcher. Its the results that matter anyway.
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Postby whitesox04champs » Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:27 am

Green Monstah wrote:did Maddux ever have incredible pitches though heither? He got batter out with incredible control and by getting ahead in the count quickly to gain the upper hand. Just because you don't have a wide array of pitches doesn't make you a bad pitcher. Its the results that matter anyway.


You people dont get it...........

Moyer's fastball is low 80's and he has bad stuff, he is old, and hitters are used to him................

If Moyer has a better than 3.80 era, I will donate 1,000$ to the cafe and I am NOT kidding.............
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Postby kcs261 » Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:52 am

Moyer is old. But he can still pitch. It doesn't matter that is stuff is in the 80s. People still can't hit it -- because he's crafty. That said, I'd rather have Santana or Willis. But don't go writing Moyer off.
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Postby whitesox04champs » Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:55 am

kcs261 wrote:Moyer is old. But he can still pitch. It doesn't matter that is stuff is in the 80s. People still can't hit it -- because he's crafty. That said, I'd rather have Santana or Willis. But don't go writing Moyer off.


i will remember this forum and will be laughing at all of u after this season..............
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Postby kcs261 » Sat Apr 17, 2004 1:02 am

Here is Moyer's ERA the last three years:

2001: 3.43
2002: 3.32
2003: 3.27

And all three years, Moyers was throwing the same 80 MPH junk that he is throwing right now. So absent an injury, betting that Moyer is under 3.80 seems pretty safe to me. :-D
Last edited by kcs261 on Sat Apr 17, 2004 1:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby whitesox04champs » Sat Apr 17, 2004 1:04 am

kcs261 wrote:Here are Moyer's ERAs the last three years:

2001: 3.43
2002: 3.32
2003: 3.27

And all three years, Moyers was throwing the same 80 MPH junk that he is throwing right now in his late 30/early 40s. So betting that he is under 3.80 seems pretty safe to me.

Fact is, Moyer has thrown junk his whole career and people haven't been able to figure it out. So absent some kind of injury, people won't figure it out this year, either.


Look, i have made my point and i will really get in your face in about 2 months when i will be bragging...........
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Postby kcs261 » Sat Apr 17, 2004 1:09 am

whitesox04champs wrote:
kcs261 wrote:Here are Moyer's ERAs the last three years:

2001: 3.43
2002: 3.32
2003: 3.27

And all three years, Moyers was throwing the same 80 MPH junk that he is throwing right now in his late 30/early 40s. So betting that he is under 3.80 seems pretty safe to me.

Fact is, Moyer has thrown junk his whole career and people haven't been able to figure it out. So absent some kind of injury, people won't figure it out this year, either.


Look, i have made my point and i will really get in your face in about 2 months when i will be bragging...........


Whatever, dude. We have until the end of the season before we can evaluate any numbers -- and tell anybody that we told them so.

Moreover, I have showed you a pattern where Moyer's ERA has dropped the last three years. In other words, he has gotten better.

So your opinion is just that: an opinion without much justification. I don't even have Moyer on my team. But as a 5th or 6th starter, I'd love to have him.
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Postby jeffc_76 » Sat Apr 17, 2004 1:42 am

I've really wondered how the heck Jamie Moyer consistently puts up great numbers year after year with such a weak fastball. I considered him a pretender for the longest time but eventually you have to admit that you can't just be lucky forever. He has to be doing something right. After reading this little back and forth argument, it got me thinking.....he must just take advantage of mediocre hitting because there's just no way that good players can get shut down by someone throwing 80mph. So, I took a few minutes and looked up the numbers for a few good players vs. Moyer and it seems to confirm to me what I was thinking. Thoughts?

BA OBP SLG OPS
A-Rod .318 .375 .523 .898
M. Ordonez .333 .368 .444 .813
C. Beltran .333 .440 .429 .869
C. Delgado .447 .536 .936 1.472
M. Ramirez .385 .478 1.077 1.555
G. Anderson .370 .387 .685 1.072
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Postby foamposited » Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:16 am

From living in Seattle and watching Moyer pitch. I think because he throws that change up, batters get fooled on the fast ball because it comes up so much faster even if it's only 80 when your looking for a changeup. I don't see anything different about Moyer pitching this year except maybe they figured him out? I don't really remember the two times I watched him on TV this year. I think he will come through and put up 15 + wins and a Sub 3.5 Era.
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Postby trac02 » Sat Apr 17, 2004 8:01 am

The man defines 'crafty lefthander'. The only worry about Moyer is the run support behind him, which is a big if this year in Seattle, in my opinion. I scooped him up when somebody waived him in my league. In any case it's far too early to abandon hope.
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