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Veteran Mngrs. - Teach me how to trade!

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Veteran Mngrs. - Teach me how to trade!

Postby Baggins » Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:18 pm

As everyone knows, buying a car is more of a negotiation than a straight out purchase. From my experience as a first time fantasy manager this year (with 4 yahoo teams...2 of which are #1!!!), trading fantasy players is very similar to buying a car, for this reason.

It so happens that I make my living (as a scientist) by being objective and therefore avoid putting "spin" on what I see. Unfortunately, pointing out the equality of the trade isn't the best way to entice another manager.

How do you fantasy veterans do it? What amazing trades have you pulled off? Any rules of thumb, or tried and true tactics? ;-D
"Back then, if you had a sore arm, the only people concerned were you and your wife. Now it's you, your wife, your agent, your investment counselor, your stockbroker, and your publisher." -- Jim Bouton
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Postby LBJackal » Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:33 pm

Well, it sounds cliché, but: Buy Low, Sell High

This usually works well for me. Last year when Vlad wasn't injured yet, MacDougal was looking like Gagne, Prior was unproven, and Beltran was injured, i traded Vlad and MacDougal for Prior and Beltran. Then when Tim Worrell started getting a lot of saves, I dealt him and Ty Wigginton for Mike Lowell right before he exploded. Pick your spots. If you have a guy like Hafner, Charles Johnson, Armando Benitez, or Miguel Cabrera, sell now, and get a proven star who is struggling. Like A-Rod (I don't know if his owners would be willing to sell low just yet though). As for talking with people and negotiating trades, it depends on the person. Some people need reassurance that the trade will help them. But telling people you're getting the worse end of the deal never works, because they see right through you: why would you offer a trade if it makes your team worse? Admit it helps your team, but also that it helps both teams. So don't treat people like morons, or they'll decline your offers. Don't force a trade on them, or they'll think you're trying to rip them off (which in most cases you are :-D ). Patience is a virtue.
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Postby ponson's poor toilet » Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:39 pm

1. Assess the other team's needs. Don't know how many times I've been offered a closer as part of a trade when I already have Wagner,Urbina and Kolb.
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Postby bleach168 » Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:47 pm

CBMGreatOne posted some great tips on how to rip off people a short while back,

Sucker play #1- Good player + marginal player (nearly waiver wire quality) = Stud player (top 2 or 3 rounds)

Every league I play in one or more of these goes through. Not all should be vetoed, but some deserve a look. For instance, how about a?: Team A gives: Jose Vidro + Juan Gonzalez
Team B gives: Vlad Guerrerro.

Popular defense: "But Team B's second baseman is Junior Spivey, and if Juan Gonzalez stays healthy, it helps his team."

OK, I see where these defenders are going with this one, but consider the heist relative to draft position. Vlad Guerrerro was selected in round 1 or early in round 2, and Team A has only given Team B his tenth and 20th round picks for him. Allow or Veto?

In this case I say veto, though a veto is not necessarily automatic, it depends on the atmosphere of the league. If it's a serious league with a lot of tough players, don't expect that it'll ever go through.

I would allow it if it were closer, say something like Jeff Kent and Jim Edmonds for Todd Helton (I wouldn't expect any cafe member to make this trade, but if someone did, at least they're giving up two legitimate players)

Sucker Play #2- Marginal Hitter + Lower Tier Closer = Stud

Again, a trade I used to make all the time (or at least attempt) only problem is, if the players in your league are dumb enough to accept these trades, it probably isn't worth playing in this league in the first place.

Example: Team A gives Frank Thomas and Rocky Biddle
Team B gives Albert Pujols.

Perhaps Team B has ZERO closers, and perhaps his team name is ChiTownSluggers. I've seen it before.

Popular defense: "But he can't win without closers and Biddle had 35 saves last year. Frank is going to hit forty HRs again, I'm not even sure HE isn't getting the better of the deal."
"And so he spoke, and so he spoke, that lord of Castamere. But now the rains weep o'er his hall, with no one there to hear." - The Rains of Castamere
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Postby tiger spit » Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:49 pm

well i used a good tactic which worked great this year...
i am in a keeper, first year , h2h league.
going into draft i drafted a ton of huge hyped up names like, kaz,tex,crosby,mauer,cabrera,crawford,jackson,wagner,some others too cant remember, added some of those guys in a # of trades with a more proven star like v. wells,smotlz and ended up with arod,sheff,bonds, got crawford back and kept cabrera and mauer.. only thing is most trades were before start of season before any of these young names panned or didnt pan out... can work for you too next year i guess.
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Postby jbones733 » Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:11 pm

Its all about negotiation, heres a few rules i go by

#1 - ALWAYS listen to offers, dont tell anyone to get lost even if the trade is lopsided. always keep fellow owners happy, Ive had trades start out lopsided for them end up great for me

# 2 - dont be afraid to pull the trigger. Even if you guve up a good guy, if you feel the trade will help you, DO IT. especially if u have a need at 1 position

# 3 - never buy a guy at his highest, Buy low, sell high works like a charm if its the right situation. ex. u cant trade M Cabrera right now for Nomar & Mulder, gotta go a lil more discreetly
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Postby BigMusky » Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:40 pm

In every fantasy league I usually am able to build awesome teams by being an expert of the Waiver Wire. It allows you to basically have an unlimited supply of talent to throw at people and get the studs you want. I am a big fan of the trade


Good Player + as many hot streak players as neceassry = Stud
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Postby wrveres » Thu Apr 15, 2004 7:22 pm

A) Build relationships .....
I call them trading partners

I always make small talk with the other owners first, I am trying to figure out what they are looking at. Generally I will not even make an offer during our first or even second conversation. Always remeber this...
You have no idea who he/she likes or dislikes.
You have no idea what his knowledge is.
You have no idea who is favorite player is.
It could be Doug Glanville for all you know and hey look at that, you have Doug Glanville on your roster. You have to feel him out ..


b) Always be curtious when negoitaing ..
I never return nasty emails when somebody make me a lopsided offer. Instead I look at this as an opportunity to ... Build a relationship. Send a counter offer, make it semi Lopsided in your favor but be sure to include the main player his was intrested in getting from you. This will get them talking everytime. Now they think that you are willing to deal the guy they were after in the first place, even if you are not, and it will give you an opportunity to find out who he is willing to part with.

C) never say "I need" or "I want" .. the deal should always be about their needs and there wants ... ;-7

D) Never trade just to trade. never
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Postby BigLebowski » Thu Apr 15, 2004 7:31 pm

One trade secret "not really a secret" that I go by is before the All-Star break, always make the trade if you are getting the better players. You don"t need to trade for need in the first half of the season, just get the best players possible.

After the all-star break trade for need. If you need steals, trade for speed. If you need saves trade for a closer.

The guys you traded for before the all-star break, can always be traded for need later in the season.

I've lived by this creed, and it has never failed me. Injury's have effected the results, but you can't plan on those, and Madam Cleo is charging too much for prior warnings.
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Postby BigLebowski » Thu Apr 15, 2004 7:34 pm

One trade secret "not really a secret" that I go by is before the All-Star break, always make the trade if you are getting the better players. You don"t need to trade for need in the first half of the season, just get the best players possible.

After the all-star break trade for need. If you need steals, trade for speed. If you need saves trade for a closer.

The guys you traded for before the all-star break, can always be traded for need later in the season.

I've lived by this creed, and it has never failed me. Injury's have effected the results, but you can't plan on those, and Madam Cleo is charging too much for prior warnings.
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