Hank Aaron is Overrated!! - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2015 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Hank Aaron is Overrated!!

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Postby ramble2 » Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:52 am

As for Aaron, I don't know whether he's overrated or not. I guess it depends on who's rating him. I don't think it's fair to downgrade his achievement simply because he had so many more ABs than Ruth. Being able to consistently produce in so many ABs is itself very impressive. If it were easy, then more would have passed Ruth. Ruth is 90th on the career ABs list. Yet only he and Aaron have topped 700 HR, and you only add Mays and Bonds if you lower the bar to 600 HR. When (if) Bonds joins them, he'll probably be around 50th (I'm guessing around 9100 ABs).

Aaron's feat - and that of hitting over 700 HR in a career - grows more impressive the longer it remains exclusive.
"The game has a cleanness. If you do a good job, the numbers say so. You don't have to ask anyone or play politics. You don't have to wait for the reviews." - Sandy Koufax
ramble2
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe Ranker
Posts: 2952
(Past Year: 5)
Joined: 27 Feb 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Salt Lake City

Postby Lofunzo » Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:54 am

Kwaziwampo wrote:What we had in Ruth, was an anomoly. There has been no other athelete in history like him as far as dominating the sport. He did change the game.


I would put Mr. Gretzky into the mix. He averaged almost a point more per game than his next competitor in many seasons. Taking 83-84 as an example, his season would be like Bonds hitting 50 HR and the next guy hitting 31.

Anonymous wrote:Ruth cost himself 4000 abs because he got fat and died. nuff said..........


Classy post. :-t

He did play until he was 40 (although his last season was terrible). He also managed to live another 13 years after he retired.
Image
Lofunzo
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe RankerEagle EyeHockey ModPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 23698
(Past Year: 11)
Joined: 9 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Central Jersey

Postby Lofunzo » Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:59 am

ramble2 wrote:As for Aaron, I don't know whether he's overrated or not. I guess it depends on who's rating him. I don't think it's fair to downgrade his achievement simply because he had so many more ABs than Ruth. Being able to consistently produce in so many ABs is itself very impressive. If it were easy, then more would have passed Ruth. Ruth is 90th on the career ABs list. Yet only he and Aaron have topped 700 HR, and you only add Mays and Bonds if you lower the bar to 600 HR. When (if) Bonds joins them, he'll probably be around 50th (I'm guessing around 9100 ABs).

Aaron's feat - and that of hitting over 700 HR in a career - grows more impressive the longer it remains exclusive.


I don't want to say that Aaron is overrated. The only time that I will even think about that is if he is listed as the best slugger of all-time just because he has the most HR. There are a lot of factors to consider and he is certainly more of a compiler than Ruth. To me, the list starts with Ruth. Aaron's longevity helped him tremendously statistically but it slightly diminishes his rank relatively.
Image
Lofunzo
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe RankerEagle EyeHockey ModPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 23698
(Past Year: 11)
Joined: 9 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Central Jersey

Re: Amen...

Postby wrveres » Tue Apr 13, 2004 3:05 am

Kwaziwampo wrote:The records were broken...and more importantly, when the Berlin Bombers are playing the Turkmenistant Turkey's in the 2107 World Series, they won't look back and remember how Aaron had more AB's. They'll remember how Juan Pierre Jr.'s record of 850 Hr's obliterated that Bonds fellow, and history will make everyone a footnote....even Ruth. The numbers don't lie.


LMAO true true :-D
wrveres
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterEagle EyeInnovative MemberCafe Musketeer
Posts: 31783
(Past Year: 671)
Joined: 2 Mar 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby BobbyRoberto » Tue Apr 13, 2004 3:07 am

Anonymous wrote:
Ruth cost himself 4000 abs because he got fat and died. nuff said..........


Classy post.

He did play until he was 40 (although his last season was terrible). He also managed to live another 13 years after he retired.


I agree. That post by guest was one of the more ignorant posts I've seen here. Ruth's career AB totals are less than they could have been because he pitched over 1,100 innings the first 5 years of his career, and didn't have the at-bats of a full-time player.
Roger Angell: I was talking with Bob Gibson and I said: 'Are you always this competitive?' He said: 'Oh, I think so. I got a three-year old daughter, and I've played about 500 games of tic-tac-toe with her and she hasn't beat me yet.'
BobbyRoberto
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
CafeholicCafe Writer
Posts: 1269
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Bothell, Washington

Postby ramble2 » Tue Apr 13, 2004 3:15 am

Lofunzo wrote:
ramble2 wrote:As for Aaron, I don't know whether he's overrated or not. I guess it depends on who's rating him. I don't think it's fair to downgrade his achievement simply because he had so many more ABs than Ruth. Being able to consistently produce in so many ABs is itself very impressive. If it were easy, then more would have passed Ruth. Ruth is 90th on the career ABs list. Yet only he and Aaron have topped 700 HR, and you only add Mays and Bonds if you lower the bar to 600 HR. When (if) Bonds joins them, he'll probably be around 50th (I'm guessing around 9100 ABs).

Aaron's feat - and that of hitting over 700 HR in a career - grows more impressive the longer it remains exclusive.


I don't want to say that Aaron is overrated. The only time that I will even think about that is if he is listed as the best slugger of all-time just because he has the most HR. There are a lot of factors to consider and he is certainly more of a compiler than Ruth. To me, the list starts with Ruth. Aaron's longevity helped him tremendously statistically but it slightly diminishes his rank relatively.


That sounds fair to me; although I think a case could be made for Bonds.

Your post got me thinking about what it would mean to be the best slugger to ever play baseball. Let's forget about lasting power for a moment. Who's the best slugger? wrveres, this one's for you: Dunn is currently 8/21 with 4 HR and 4 RBI. In my dream world, Dunn goes an entire season only hitting home runs. Something like 80/450 with 80 HR, 90 RBI (the extra 10 are all pitchers who accidently got on base in front of Dunn) and 150 Walks. Sadly, he's still only worth having on roster in leagues where BA is replaced with OBP. :-D
"The game has a cleanness. If you do a good job, the numbers say so. You don't have to ask anyone or play politics. You don't have to wait for the reviews." - Sandy Koufax
ramble2
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe Ranker
Posts: 2952
(Past Year: 5)
Joined: 27 Feb 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Salt Lake City

Postby wrveres » Tue Apr 13, 2004 3:20 am

princethomas wrote: There really isnt anything that can be done about that. They were tainted a little bit when there were 7 60+ homerun seasons in a span of 4 years. After having only 2 60+ homerun seasons in 130 years or so of organized baseball. Of every 50 homerun season there has ever been, more than half have been in the last 15 years. So every homerun mark set now is automatically less impressive.


Expansion ... 1993 and 1998 will pretty much cover those 15 years. so basically everything done over the last 15 years is tainted then ...

We can just call this the "Tainted ERA" :-)
of course we have no evidence of that ...
wrveres
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterEagle EyeInnovative MemberCafe Musketeer
Posts: 31783
(Past Year: 671)
Joined: 2 Mar 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby fvilla18 » Tue Apr 13, 2004 3:33 am

From Espn The Magazine: "Asterisks"

Home Runs: All-Time

Hank Aaron: 755*
Babe Ruth: 714**
Willie Mays: 660***
Barry Bonds: 660****
Frank Robinson: 658*****
Mark McGwire: 586******
Harmon Killebrew: 573*******
Reggie Jackson: 563********
Mike Schmidt: 548*********
Sammy Sosa: 539**********

*Feasted on expansion pitching
**Never played against major leaguers of color
*** Didnt have to face Randy Johnson
****Suspected of using steroids
*****Played with Ted Kluszewski....hmmm
******Suspected of using steroids
*******Didnt have to face Lefty Grove
********Suspected of using limelight
*********Benefitted from the introduction of comfortable double-knits
**********Oh, sure, this was the first time he ever used a cork bat
Last edited by fvilla18 on Tue Apr 13, 2004 4:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
fvilla18
College Coach
College Coach

User avatar

Posts: 160
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby Lofunzo » Tue Apr 13, 2004 3:57 am

I laugh at some of the comparisons. Mays never faced RJ?? Well, while I'm sure that Bonds has had a few days off against RJ, he only has 32 career AB against him. He also homers every 10.67 AB. I don't see how those few AB affect Mays at all.
Image
Lofunzo
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe RankerEagle EyeHockey ModPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 23698
(Past Year: 11)
Joined: 9 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Central Jersey

Postby HOOTIE » Tue Apr 13, 2004 6:52 am

mtarail wrote:Aaron= consistent greatness. Nuff 'said.

Hate all you want on 755. Hank is alreadyone the most underrated living players so there's plenty of hating for you to spread around.

And mentioning Mantle in the same breath is a joke. Mantle hit 25 or more home runs 10 times. Aaron did it 18 times. Aaron played 5 more seasons than Mantle and still batted 7 points higher (305).



Mantle was a better player then Aaron. You are basing it on batting average and hrs??????? Mantle walked alot more.

172 OPS+ Mantle
155 OPS+ Aaron

best 3 years win shares

51/49/48 Mantle
41/38/38 Aaron

I saw Mays/Aaron/ Mantle. Give me Mantle. Bonds beats them all.
Smells Like Teen Spirit
HOOTIE
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe Ranker
Posts: 15115
(Past Year: 296)
Joined: 12 Jan 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Pearl Jam country, right next door to Nirvana, Soundgarden, and Alice in Chains.

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact