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Prior ethics

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Postby Nomar4prez » Mon Apr 12, 2004 1:15 pm

I actually like to think of fantasy trades as real MLB trades. Thus, if you conceal an injury, then I think your being unfair. I generally like to let my trade partner aware of injuries. BUT, I have been unsuccessful trying to trade Prior, so you might not want to listen to me.
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Postby Quaker » Mon Apr 12, 2004 1:22 pm

Nomar4prez wrote:I actually like to think of fantasy trades as real MLB trades. Thus, if you conceal an injury, then I think your being unfair.

The difference between a real trade and a fantasy trade that conceals an injury is that in a real trade often the only party that knows of the injury is the team trying to trade. It's insider knowledge, and often no matter how much research another team does, it may not find out.

In fantasy, unless an owner has inside connections with a team, everyone has access to knowledge of an injury, or no one does. You're not concealing an injury if someone could spend 5 minutes on rototimes or rotodaily to find out about an injury. Playing upon people's ignorance is part of fantasy sports.

Equating fantasy trades and MLB trades is misguided and unsound.
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Postby papercutsuicide » Mon Apr 12, 2004 1:54 pm

Those of you whose sentiment is something to the effect of "yeah, it's ok, if the other guy is stupid enough to not know about Prior's injury, he shouldn't be playing anyway" are missing a HUGE point of fantasy baseball: all trades affect all GM's, not just the GM's involved in the trade. Thus, while you feel no pity for the sap who doesn't know that Prior is injured, you are still cutting your own throat if you let the Prior get, say Pujols in return.

Bottom line: an egregious trade is an egregious trade. It doesn't matter how stupid a GM is; it is the responsibility of -all- owners in the league to uphold the integrity of the league, whether or not they are involved in the trade.
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Postby great gretzky » Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:12 pm

"all trades effect all managers" true. But this is true for every league manager in the AL or NL too.

The fact is that someone could easily find out prior's status if they cared (or any other player for that matter). How it effects everyone else is irrelevant to me, the prior owner -- as I am the one with prior.

Your homework is your responsibility. lying to someone is one thing, offering a trade is quite another. I wouldn't lie about his injury, but offering up prior for another pitcher is not in anyway unethical. Trying to trade damaged goods is not against the rules. Everyone with 5 minutes on their hands can find out that he is damaged goods. How this would be "unethical" is beyond me. So, because some other team might take offense at it, I am not allowed to maximize my team?
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Postby cardinals15 » Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:33 pm

Trade ethics is an interesting issue for sure. If you happen to be watching a game on tv and see Todd Helton have a season ending injury and then quickly turn on your computer and offer him up for a Brian Giles or Vernon Wells type player (1st tier for 2nd tier) and not mention anything and hoping the guy accepts before the news gets out, I might have a problem with that. Most of the league will probably similarly have a problem with that as well and make it tougher to ever make a deal with that particular person, so maybe that factor will alone be enough to correct the problem. However, some leagues promote the "anything goes" type culture so again it is a gray area. Nevertheless, In Prior's case, I think its fair and reasonable to assume everybody should know what his status is, and the person trading with you is discounting his value, weighing the risk and giving you less value. So any trade you make at this point I think is reasonable.
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Postby cardinals15 » Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:41 pm

Trade ethics is an interesting issue for sure. If you happen to be watching a game on tv and see Todd Helton have a season ending injury and then quickly turn on your computer and offer him up for a Brian Giles or Vernon Wells type player (1st tier for 2nd tier) and not mention anything and hoping the guy accepts before the news gets out, I might have a problem with that. Most of the league will probably similarly have a problem with that as well and make it tougher to ever make a deal with that particular person, so maybe that factor will alone be enough to correct the problem. However, some leagues promote the "anything goes" type culture so again it is a gray area. Nevertheless, In Prior's case, I think its fair and reasonable to assume everybody should know what his status is, and the person trading with you is discounting his value, weighing the risk and giving you less value. So any trade you make at this point I think is reasonable.
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Postby Mordraken » Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:46 pm

Well, let's say this guy did take Prior in a deal, and Prior comes back in June and in those 20 starts goes 15-2 with a 2.50 ERA and a 1.15 WHIP and puts up 170 strikeouts... how bad would any trade be for those kind of numbers?

I think in many cases you can make a case for trading prior. I'd personally trade for him, but would not give a stud close to Prior when he's healthy. In other words, if Prior was healthy, I would think an offer of Tim Hudson or Roy Oswalt plus a little would be reasonable for him. Injued, I would never consider that. I would however offer someone like Jamie Moyer for him straight up now, and stash Prior on my DL until he's better. It all depends on the pitching depth.

Of course, any time I get a trade offer, I check on the current news for players. If I don't then that's my fault. As a commish, I have had people request a trade be "un-done" because they didn't know all the info. I have always rejected those requests (unless it was accepted by both parties) because it is the responsability of the managers to make the deal.

Because anyway, let's say you trade Prior for Kerry Wood, and next start Kerry blows out his arm and is gone for the season... then who's the genious owner? You never know, and you can't stop people from being stupid... or genious.
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