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Free Agent/Waiver Churning - Do you think it's OK?

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Should there be a rule against this (see thread below) sort of player churning?

Yes
2
40%
No
3
60%
 
Total votes : 5

Free Agent/Waiver Churning - Do you think it's OK?

Postby khabibul35 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:26 pm

A fellow owner in my league has been streaming pitchers all season. In fact, his only SP all year has been Jose Fernandez. In the process, he's gone way ahead of pace in IP limit. For a while, what he was doing with the extra spots was holding rookies like Billy Hamilton while waiting for them to hold up.

In this last week or so, however, he's started using the following strategy:

1) At 12:00 AM on the dot, he'll pick up the best 3 or 4 starting pitcher for the upcoming day.
Example: Ogando starts on 9/27. He'll pick up Ogando at 12:00 AM on 9/26 since he qualifies to start the next day.
2) At 11:59 PM, he'll release the said player and pick up a player he either wants to use the following day or one that he wants to initiate a waivers process on.
Example: He'll drop Ogando and pick up Darin Mastroianni.
3) One minute later, at 12:00 AM on 9/27, he'll pick up another SP who's starting on 9/28 while dropping the player he just picked up one minute before.
Example: He'll drop Darin Mastroianni and pick up Joe Kelly.

He'll do this with 3-4 pitchers on a given day (though I'm actually surprised he's not done it to the top 10 since he easily has the room to do it). He won't actually start them. In the process, this is it what happens.

1) The first player picked up at 12:00 AM (Ogando) is unusable for his start since he can't be picked up for his start.
2) The player picked up at 11:59 PM (Mastroianni) is unusable for the following 4 days because he's going through waivers.
3) None of the players above start for the team in question.

Multiply out (4 players every day time 7 days a week) and you get him blocking about 28 potential pickups every week as the end of the season approaches.

What do you all think about this? Is is legal? Should it be legal? Does it fall into the unwritten rule category?

Seems to me like it violates Rule 4 of Yahoo League Rules:

All league-related transactions will be executed with the intent of improving the owner's team and/or its standing within the league.
No owner may drop or "dump" players from their team for any reason other than improving their own team and/or its standing within the league.
No owner will engage in any action that may be deemed to be collusive (two or more owners agreeing to make moves that benefit one team, but not the other).
No owner will make any roster moves (including waiver claims, trade proposals, etc.) whose sole purpose is to hamper the play of other owners.
No owner will take any action whose purpose is to, in any way, interfere with fair play in a league.
Benching your entire roster for a Fantasy week to ensure another team a victory would be an example of this behavior.

Then again, it's a private league. Anyway, vote and respond. I think it's an interesting question and think we could really benefit from getting some outside opinion.

Thanks in advance to everyone!
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Re: Free Agent/Waiver Churning - Do you think it's OK?

Postby Skin Blues » Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:13 pm

Yahoo's rules aren't very clear. For instance, if you are churning players like that, it is ultimately to help your own position in the standings relative to the teams that are hurt by not being able to pick up those players. Therefore, the sole purpose is NOT to simply interfere with other teams. Regardless, you shouldn't be using Yahoo's default rules, you should have your own. Limit transactions, require teams to have enough pitchers to fill out a lineup, have permanent waivers and have them process for the next day versus same day, block teams from picking up pitchers once they're over the limit (although this could be loopholed by churning pitchers once you're 0.1 IP away from the limit).

Anyway, I don't see it as a violation of Yahoo's rules. Although it's annoying, if you don't have rules against it, then it's allowable. At the end of the year you can kick the guy out if nobody wants him in the league, but it's too late to do anything this season.
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Re: Free Agent/Waiver Churning - Do you think it's OK?

Postby kab21 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:11 pm

He's just a dick. I would try to get him removed from the league. I'm not sure you can create enough rules that prevent this kind of legal loophole behavior and you shouldn't really have to if you are in a semi-friendly competitive league.

People complain all the time about having all players on waivers (FAAB) and daily (or even better twice weekly pickups) but I like it. If you are concerned about not being able to pick up a backup in case of injury then setup your roster to have a few position player backups. Twice weekly pickups kill streaming and makes it possible for those of us (including myself now) to pick up hot FA's even if we don't watch baseball every night and constantly hit refresh for baseball news.
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Re: Free Agent/Waiver Churning - Do you think it's OK?

Postby OBPlover » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:29 pm

I hate streaming personally. But it's my fault if I join a league that doesn't have rules to prevent it.

I was looking for another league to join last off season. There's one league that had everything I look for. (e.g. Leaguesafe payments). But having taken a closer look I noticed that there were 7 pickups available for week and the categories included QS. I emailed the owner of the league and asked him about it. He said that he thought streaming was great because every team does it and it forces you to pick which marginal pitcher will be a good matchup. Needless to say I didn't join. It punishes teams who draft good starting pitching.
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Re: Free Agent/Waiver Churning - Do you think it's OK?

Postby Skin Blues » Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:00 pm

kab21 wrote:People complain all the time about having all players on waivers (FAAB) and daily (or even better twice weekly pickups) but I like it ... Twice weekly pickups kill streaming and makes it possible for those of us (including myself now) to pick up hot FA's even if we don't watch baseball every night and constantly hit refresh for baseball news.

I agree. Every league I play in either has weekly FAAB, or permanent waivers with daily FAAB, and I love it. No more rushing to the free agent list any time a hot new player emerges or some shmuck gets a shot at being a closer.
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Re: Free Agent/Waiver Churning - Do you think it's OK?

Postby jackie hayes » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:15 pm

I think it's analogous to the example given. "Benching your entire roster for a Fantasy week to ensure another team a victory would be an example of this behavior." That sort of action can benefit you. If you want to see a weaker team in the playoffs, or just force your opponent to have a meaningful matchup in the last week, so he can't set up for the playoffs. But just because the action helps you doesn't mean it's 'legal' to take a dive.

I don't mind streaming when the rules allow it, but churning crosses the line, imo.
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Re: Free Agent/Waiver Churning - Do you think it's OK?

Postby J35J » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:37 pm

My main league has a limit of 4 moves per week and 50 max moves on the year. I like it.
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Re: Free Agent/Waiver Churning - Do you think it's OK?

Postby wrveres » Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:51 pm

Skin Blues wrote:
kab21 wrote:People complain all the time about having all players on waivers (FAAB) and daily pickups

I agree. permanent waivers with daily FAAB, and I love it. No more rushing to the free agent list any time a hot new player emerges or some shmuck gets a shot at being a closer.


yes.
thank you genie for listening. the settings are almost perfect. ;-D
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