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When Is It Time To Quit A League?

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Re: When Is It Time To Quit A League?

Postby kab21 » Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:35 pm

But it's only necessary if you have incompetent owners.

One of the great things about my huge dynasty is when you see a big deal get worked out with little warning. These nanny rules really kill off the incentive to do the initial work of setting up a trade.
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Re: When Is It Time To Quit A League?

Postby Bwanna » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:54 pm

kab21 wrote:But it's only necessary if you have incompetent owners.

One of the great things about my huge dynasty is when you see a big deal get worked out with little warning. These nanny rules really kill off the incentive to do the initial work of setting up a trade.

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Re: When Is It Time To Quit A League?

Postby AHF » Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:26 am

If you have a mechanism in your league that you like then don't fix what isn't broken. I have been in over 100 leagues varying from casual internet leagues to ones with very invested, intelligent owners. I prefer this system over all others even for the leagues with diligent invested owners. The "free rider" concern is a red herring in my experience because you are really just complaining that others are bidding on those players. In my most invested league, the diligent owners rarely trade someone without testing the market anyway.

Bottomline: I seriously doubt those criticizing this have ever tried it.
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Re: When Is It Time To Quit A League?

Postby bigh0rt » Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:44 am

AHF wrote:If you have a mechanism in your league that you like then don't fix what isn't broken. I have been in over 100 leagues varying from casual internet leagues to ones with very invested, intelligent owners. I prefer this system over all others even for the leagues with diligent invested owners. The "free rider" concern is a red herring in my experience because you are really just complaining that others are bidding on those players. In my most invested league, the diligent owners rarely trade someone without testing the market anyway.

Bottomline: I seriously doubt those criticizing this have ever tried it.

If the system works for your league, then more power to ya, and that's the end of it. I've never had to try it, because if I were ever in a league where I felt it was necessary, I'd either leave the league or go about finding other new owners for it. It's an unnecessary mechanism when I'm in a league that meets my requirements. For me, it would spoil a lot of the strategy in the trading and negotiating process, and I can't imagine that I would enjoy it. Again, though, if it's working for the group of guys it governs in your league, that's all that matters. You've gotta know, though, that while it may work for you, I strongly believe that is an exception to the rule, rather than the rule, for league-types that most of the conversationalists here seem to be discussing.
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Re: When Is It Time To Quit A League?

Postby Frenchiegangsta9 » Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:46 am

rich101682 wrote:I'm in a 20 team keeper league. This league has been going since 2003 and I've been a part of it since 2008. Up until now, it's been one of the best leagues I've ever been in because of both the size and competitiveness.

This year, things have changed a lot. Since you keep 5 players a league and it's so deep, young keeper-worthy players have always been en vogue, but I feel like Harper/Trout last season have just made EVERYTHING worse. A few weeks ago, after Michael Wacha's first start, one owner traded Gio Gonzalez and Starling Marte for him. I know the guy that was giving away Wacha pretty well, and there's no chance of collusion. He opened his inbox, saw that offer and, like every other manager SHOULD do, accepted immediately.

Now today, we wake up and see that one manager has now traded Carlos Gomez for Fernando Rodney/Raul Ibanez. That's a top 10 batter for a closer that's 2 blown saves away from losing his job. The owner trading away Rodney also has Kimbrel, so the guy getting Rodney isn't even getting the best closer he could in this deal. He also already has Veras and Gregg and is in 15th place, so it's not like bringing in Rodney was the move that would put this team over the top. The two owners involved are friends in real life too, so this absolutely reek of collusion, but our commish doesn't have any kind of review process or league vote in place. The Wacha trade stood, and this one will stand too.

The point I'm getting at is how do you know when it's time to quit a league? On one hand, it' competitive and I'm friends with about half the guys in the league. I've built a relly great roster from the garbage I inherited and I don't want that work to go to waste. On the other hand, I can't keep waking up and seeing these AWFUL trades going down that are truly upsetting the competitive balance of the league. It's not fun, and it's not fair to have to scrape by and hustle and deal while other teams basically get handed free All-Star players.

I brought up the Wacha trade on the "Buy Low/Sell High" thread when it happened, and someone responded "It's time to find a new league". Has anyone else been in this situation where that seems like the best solution?


You should email the league and discuss this issue. If others in your league agree with you, then you should work towards ammending the league constitution to reflect the leagues preferences. If the majority of managers dont have a problem with lopsided trades, then you should consider leaving.
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Re: When Is It Time To Quit A League?

Postby AHF » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:52 am

bigh0rt wrote:
AHF wrote:If you have a mechanism in your league that you like then don't fix what isn't broken. I have been in over 100 leagues varying from casual internet leagues to ones with very invested, intelligent owners. I prefer this system over all others even for the leagues with diligent invested owners. The "free rider" concern is a red herring in my experience because you are really just complaining that others are bidding on those players. In my most invested league, the diligent owners rarely trade someone without testing the market anyway.

Bottomline: I seriously doubt those criticizing this have ever tried it.

If the system works for your league, then more power to ya, and that's the end of it. I've never had to try it, because if I were ever in a league where I felt it was necessary, I'd either leave the league or go about finding other new owners for it. It's an unnecessary mechanism when I'm in a league that meets my requirements. For me, it would spoil a lot of the strategy in the trading and negotiating process, and I can't imagine that I would enjoy it. Again, though, if it's working for the group of guys it governs in your league, that's all that matters. You've gotta know, though, that while it may work for you, I strongly believe that is an exception to the rule, rather than the rule, for league-types that most of the conversationalists here seem to be discussing.


That was exactly my point. It isn't conventional (i.e., it is an exception to the normal trade mechanisms) but I play mostly in leagues with conventional trade review mechanisms and prefer this one. I like the mechanism better for good leagues with involved owners - not just bad leagues with bad owners.

I wish people had some experience with it before they made up their minds. It is hard to say whether you really like a mechanism or not if you have never tried it.
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Re: When Is It Time To Quit A League?

Postby bigh0rt » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:57 am

AHF wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:
AHF wrote:If you have a mechanism in your league that you like then don't fix what isn't broken. I have been in over 100 leagues varying from casual internet leagues to ones with very invested, intelligent owners. I prefer this system over all others even for the leagues with diligent invested owners. The "free rider" concern is a red herring in my experience because you are really just complaining that others are bidding on those players. In my most invested league, the diligent owners rarely trade someone without testing the market anyway.

Bottomline: I seriously doubt those criticizing this have ever tried it.

If the system works for your league, then more power to ya, and that's the end of it. I've never had to try it, because if I were ever in a league where I felt it was necessary, I'd either leave the league or go about finding other new owners for it. It's an unnecessary mechanism when I'm in a league that meets my requirements. For me, it would spoil a lot of the strategy in the trading and negotiating process, and I can't imagine that I would enjoy it. Again, though, if it's working for the group of guys it governs in your league, that's all that matters. You've gotta know, though, that while it may work for you, I strongly believe that is an exception to the rule, rather than the rule, for league-types that most of the conversationalists here seem to be discussing.


That was exactly my point. It isn't conventional (i.e., it is an exception to the normal trade mechanisms) but I play mostly in leagues with conventional trade review mechanisms and prefer this one. I like the mechanism better for good leagues with involved owners - not just bad leagues with bad owners.

I wish people had some experience with it before they made up their minds. It is hard to say whether you really like a mechanism or not if you have never tried it.

On my end, I've already come up with so many scenarios where it would be a hindrance to me, and few, if any, where I feel like it would be beneficial to my leagues. I don't think people are immediately dismissing the idea, but are creating these hypotheticals, like I am, and deciding based on that. It's relatively easy here to determine that this isn't something I would like, or deem necessary in any of my leagues. I don't think that makes me short sighted or closed minded. I also don't think this is a policy needed just for bad owners and bad leagues. I just think you need a very specific type of group of people for this to be open and welcome, which you obviously have. For me, it just doesn't fly, even if our two leagues are equally serious and filled with equal quality players. I certainly don't think that a rule like this should diminish the quality of player as perceived by outsiders (and maybe some people are doing that, but whatever to them), but I feel like I can safely say, after playing out different scenarios where I would be the initial trade partner, and where I was swooping in, being swooped in on, etc. that I just wouldn't care for it. After 16 years of playing, I feel comfortable making my own presumptions there. I think it's awesome that it works for your league, though. I'm a big fan of unconventional things that work in leagues, especially over time, even if it's something that may not be my cup of tea.
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Re: When Is It Time To Quit A League?

Postby J35J » Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:50 pm

bigh0rt wrote:
AHF wrote:I wish people had some experience with it before they made up their minds. It is hard to say whether you really like a mechanism or not if you have never tried it.

On my end, I've already come up with so many scenarios where it would be a hindrance to me, and few, if any, where I feel like it would be beneficial to my leagues. I don't think people are immediately dismissing the idea, but are creating these hypotheticals, like I am, and deciding based on that. It's relatively easy here to determine that this isn't something I would like, or deem necessary in any of my leagues. I don't think that makes me short sighted or closed minded. I also don't think this is a policy needed just for bad owners and bad leagues. I just think you need a very specific type of group of people for this to be open and welcome, which you obviously have. For me, it just doesn't fly, even if our two leagues are equally serious and filled with equal quality players. I certainly don't think that a rule like this should diminish the quality of player as perceived by outsiders (and maybe some people are doing that, but whatever to them), but I feel like I can safely say, after playing out different scenarios where I would be the initial trade partner, and where I was swooping in, being swooped in on, etc. that I just wouldn't care for it. After 16 years of playing, I feel comfortable making my own presumptions there. I think it's awesome that it works for your league, though. I'm a big fan of unconventional things that work in leagues, especially over time, even if it's something that may not be my cup of tea.


+1
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Re: When Is It Time To Quit A League?

Postby AHF » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:23 pm

That is all fair, but I still think you can't fairly evaluate it without actually using it. Cheers!
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Re: When Is It Time To Quit A League?

Postby TheTrith » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:33 pm

Who decides what the best offer is?
The league?
Or the owner accepting the trade?
How is the initial deal proposed?

Im not exactly sure what your rules are trying to accomplish.
Im all for rooting out collusion if thats the goal, but I can think of many more effective other ways to do so.
It seems like the rule would result in rewarding lazy owners and dragging out trade negotiations.
I cant come up with any ways that it would improve a league.
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