When Is It Time To Quit A League? - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2015 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

When Is It Time To Quit A League?

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

When Is It Time To Quit A League?

Postby rich101682 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:01 pm

I'm in a 20 team keeper league. This league has been going since 2003 and I've been a part of it since 2008. Up until now, it's been one of the best leagues I've ever been in because of both the size and competitiveness.

This year, things have changed a lot. Since you keep 5 players a league and it's so deep, young keeper-worthy players have always been en vogue, but I feel like Harper/Trout last season have just made EVERYTHING worse. A few weeks ago, after Michael Wacha's first start, one owner traded Gio Gonzalez and Starling Marte for him. I know the guy that was giving away Wacha pretty well, and there's no chance of collusion. He opened his inbox, saw that offer and, like every other manager SHOULD do, accepted immediately.

Now today, we wake up and see that one manager has now traded Carlos Gomez for Fernando Rodney/Raul Ibanez. That's a top 10 batter for a closer that's 2 blown saves away from losing his job. The owner trading away Rodney also has Kimbrel, so the guy getting Rodney isn't even getting the best closer he could in this deal. He also already has Veras and Gregg and is in 15th place, so it's not like bringing in Rodney was the move that would put this team over the top. The two owners involved are friends in real life too, so this absolutely reek of collusion, but our commish doesn't have any kind of review process or league vote in place. The Wacha trade stood, and this one will stand too.

The point I'm getting at is how do you know when it's time to quit a league? On one hand, it' competitive and I'm friends with about half the guys in the league. I've built a relly great roster from the garbage I inherited and I don't want that work to go to waste. On the other hand, I can't keep waking up and seeing these AWFUL trades going down that are truly upsetting the competitive balance of the league. It's not fun, and it's not fair to have to scrape by and hustle and deal while other teams basically get handed free All-Star players.

I brought up the Wacha trade on the "Buy Low/Sell High" thread when it happened, and someone responded "It's time to find a new league". Has anyone else been in this situation where that seems like the best solution?
rich101682
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor


Posts: 841
(Past Year: 53)
Joined: 24 Feb 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: When Is It Time To Quit A League?

Postby ayebatter » Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:31 pm

When you have league that keeps 100 players each year and trading is allowed there is always going to be the go for it this year and the trade for youth factions, you need to decide which you're going to be at the beginning of each season and play it that way there is no in between if you want to keep your sanity.
So-Cal 25 Club _762_
ayebatter
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicResponse TeamMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 12217
(Past Year: 1284)
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: I CAN SEE FOR MILES

Re: When Is It Time To Quit A League?

Postby jfg » Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:54 pm

I don't know if I'd be that quick to throw out the word collusion. The first owner might be one of those guys who places way too much weight on prospects in a keeper league. If he's not playing for this year, maybe he just likes Wacha better than Gio in the long run and knows he's not going to keep Marte. The other one is hard to justify but maybe he thinks Carlos Gomez is playing way over his head and will revert back to MN Twins Gomez. But, yeah, that's a terrible trade. Bad trades happen, there's an owner in my keeper league that gets fleeced 2-3 times a year. It sucks when you aren't on the other end the trade, but it's part of the game.
Image
jfg
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicGolden Eagle EyeMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly WinnerTrivia Time Trial Monthly Winner
Posts: 6078
(Past Year: 82)
Joined: 4 Nov 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: When Is It Time To Quit A League?

Postby jackie hayes » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:27 pm

jfg wrote:I don't know if I'd be that quick to throw out the word collusion. The first owner might be one of those guys who places way too much weight on prospects in a keeper league. If he's not playing for this year, maybe he just likes Wacha better than Gio in the long run and knows he's not going to keep Marte. The other one is hard to justify but maybe he thinks Carlos Gomez is playing way over his head and will revert back to MN Twins Gomez. But, yeah, that's a terrible trade. Bad trades happen, there's an owner in my keeper league that gets fleeced 2-3 times a year. It sucks when you aren't on the other end the trade, but it's part of the game.


About the first trade, the op said, "there's no chance of collusion." He only suspects that for the second trade (which is pretty much indefensible, imo).
jackie hayes
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

Cafeholic
Posts: 2071
(Past Year: 65)
Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: When Is It Time To Quit A League?

Postby Smileyman9 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:31 pm

If you otherwise enjoy the league, why not seek to put in place a constitution of some sort? The commish in my league was a bit busy with work stuff, so with his blessing and assistance I wrote the first version of one and he went behind and cleaned up anything that needed it.

It doesn't necessarily prevent teams from making silly trades, but it would put into place a way to deal with unpleasant situations...
Image
Smileyman9
College Coach
College Coach

User avatar

Posts: 336
(Past Year: 2)
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: When Is It Time To Quit A League?

Postby kimchi_chigae » Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:29 am

It's time to quit the league when you are not having fun anymore. Forget about how long you have been on the league or how great of a roster you have. If you aren't having fun this year, next year it will be worse.

And I agree with jfg, bad trades will happen. No matter how competitive and knowledgeable the owners are. You can't let that affect you. Sometimes owners just want to make trades for the heck of it. I've been guilty this season of making a couple of questionable trades because my team was struggling and I wanted to make something happen.

Just ask yourself if you are having fun. If you are just grinding it out, waiting for the end of the season, then look for another league next year. And try to choose a league with a completely different set up than the one you are playing this year.
Free WR!
kimchi_chigae Beginner
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe RankerGraphics ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 14875
(Past Year: 194)
Joined: 27 May 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Osaka Jail

Re: When Is It Time To Quit A League?

Postby Bwanna » Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:37 am

- Managers often have vastly different values for players.

- Managers will always make bad trades, but good managers will also make more good trades than bad.

- Managers that make enough bad trades will give up and quit and make room for a better manager.

- Allowing all trades with no vote or commish ruling is a good thing, not a bad thing. Commishes who can't foresee the future seldom make correct vetos, same with voting (more biased) league members.

- Many trades appear very lopsided at first, but many trades aren't as they initially appear. Case in point: Last year in a cafe dynasty league I traded Josh Hamilton and Jeremy Hellickson for Bumgarner, Olt, and 2nd round pick - caught some grief for it. I doubt I could get Bumgarner for Hamilton straight up in any dynasty league now.

- Just because two owners that are friends appear to make a lopsided trade, doesn't mean there's collusion because of all the above reasons.

- If you can't deal with short-term turbulence due to stupid mistakes by other managers, and the league isn't fun, then you should quit.
[reg season/playoffs]
LFoD '08 [1st/3rd], '10 [1st/3rd], '11 [1st/2nd], '12 [1st/1st], '13, [1st/2nd], '14, [1st/1st]
BRAL '09 2nd, '10 1st
Bwanna
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicEagle EyeInnovative MemberWeb Supporter
Posts: 5656
(Past Year: 244)
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: When Is It Time To Quit A League?

Postby Izenhart » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:05 am

Just wanted to back up what Bwanna is saying here. Quitting a league comes down to how much fun I'm having. Maybe I take a few weeks off and come back, maybe not. Depends on whats going on and how bad I'm doing. (although doing bad is usually less of a reason to quit)

Bwanna wrote:- Managers often have vastly different values for players.


Someone laughed at me for turning down Gallardo straight up for Harvey back in April.

- Managers will always make bad trades, but good managers will also make more good trades than bad.


I was gunshy about trading Harvey again, because I sent Harvey + Chris Davis away in exchange for Stanton in late March.

- Managers that make enough bad trades will give up and quit and make room for a better manager.


I was also the recepiant of Harvey in one trade, giving up Brandon Morrow to get him. They team that got Morrow is in last place and quit already.

- Allowing all trades with no vote or commish ruling is a good thing, not a bad thing. Commishes who can't foresee the future seldom make correct vetos, same with voting (more biased) league members.


I lost a roto league once because I had a trade vetoed that was supposedly not in my favor. In H2H it's easier to say oh if I only had Cano that last week, but I got screwed sideways in one April veto that made me quit the league when the season ended.

- Many trades appear very lopsided at first, but many trades aren't as they initially appear. Case in point: Last year in a cafe dynasty league I traded Josh Hamilton and Jeremy Hellickson for Bumgarner, Olt, and 2nd round pick - caught some grief for it. I doubt I could get Bumgarner for Hamilton straight up in any dynasty league now.


90% of the time in trades the big name player in it is overvalued IMO.

- Just because two owners that are friends appear to make a lopsided trade, doesn't mean there's collusion because of all the above reasons.

- If you can't deal with short-term turbulence due to stupid mistakes by other managers, and the league isn't fun, then you should quit.


I know a guy who complains about every trade made no matter what and he vetoes everything that in his words "Don't direcly help his chances to win" So if a trade made helps both teams involved than it probably hurts those that aren't if that makes sense. That mentality is why vetoing is a broken system and I don't like it and you generally won't catch me voting to veto a trade unless it's fairly blatant.

One thing that helped is we gave each team a trade limit saying no more than 3 deals per year per two parties. Stopped a lot of the BS where the same two friends were exchanging players every weekend only to stack one team VS another for matchups, and then later in the season stacking the better team to win it.
Izenhart
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1611
(Past Year: 286)
Joined: 22 Mar 2012
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Big Papiville

Re: When Is It Time To Quit A League?

Postby J35J » Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:51 am

Izenhart wrote:One thing that helped is we gave each team a trade limit saying no more than 3 deals per year per two parties. Stopped a lot of the BS where the same two friends were exchanging players every weekend only to stack one team VS another for matchups, and then later in the season stacking the better team to win it.


You shouldn't need rules like this...if you do, you need to get rid of the owners that make this rule necessary.
J35J
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 10467
(Past Year: 363)
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: When Is It Time To Quit A League?

Postby AHF » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:01 am

Let me strongly recommend a trading mechanism that will eliminate all of this:

When a trade is announced, the rest of the league has 24 hours to top the offer. If someone tops it, the new trade is announced and the 24 hour rule starts anew.

This does two things: (1) it evens the trade value and (2) it stops anyone from second guessing the trade because they had their shot at topping the offer and chose not to do it. We use this in our competitive auction keeper league and the only downside is that you sometimes go through multiple iterations of trades before anything is finalized because you have people one-upping eachother until the trade goes through. That isn't such a bad thing, however, when the result of that is taking a trade where one party was indefensibly fleecing the other and shifting it into a trade that is balanced for both parties.

The fact that it prevents trades that unfairly shift league balance and uses the free market to protect the rest of the league against collusion, etc. makes this a mechanism that I strongly endorse based on my personal experience with it. For a league like you are in where it is a bunch of friends and a league with a lot of history, this should not only keep the league viable for you but actually improve the experience.
AHF
College Coach
College Coach

User avatar

Posts: 232
(Past Year: 8)
Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Home Cafe: Baseball

Next

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact