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Buck Showalter is an idiot

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Re: Buck Showalter is an idiot

Postby bayside » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:41 am

CyboNinja wrote:I went and looked up 2 players who haven't missed a game and batted in the 3 hole all year. Davis has missed 1 game thus far.

Joey Votto 298 PAs 65 G
Dustin Pedroia 297 PAs 66 G
Chris Davis 267 PAs 64 G
(these stats are from before the start of play for today June 12)
I suppose I was a little off on my estimate. 70-80 PAs lost is a more accurate guess.


So lets see here so far Davis has hit a HR every 13.35 PAs. That equals 2.38 HRs thus far. For a team that currently sits 3 GB their division leader I would think those 2 HRs could've certainly helped. Showalter is an idiot.

what?
dude you cant compare guys from different teams lol.
you realize that not all teams have the same offensive prowess, so they dont get the same number of PA's throughout the season right?
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?p ... 0&sort=3,d
2013 season to date:
Boston - 2583 PA's
Cincinnati - 2556 PA's
Orioles - 2482 PA's

Theres a much easier (and more logical) way to to think about this.
Adam Jones, hitting 4th, in 65 games has 283 PA
Chris Davis, hitting 5th, in 64 games has 267 PA
subtract 4 PA for the extra game.
that gives us a difference of 12 PA's between the #5 and #4 slot for the Orioles.
over the season thats ~ 36 PA's.

Even if Davis keeps up the pace all year, that not even 1 win worth of PA's.
Showalter might be an idiot, but its definitely not becasue Davis is batting 5th.
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Re: Buck Showalter is an idiot

Postby CyboNinja » Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:34 am

A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:We're talking about the Orioles and Chris Davis, not the Tigers and Miguel Cabrera. They're different teams and they have difference makeups. What's best for one can be very different than what's best for the other, so I'm really not concerned with how people would react if Leyland changed his lineup.
Well I figured they were a good comparison considering they're 1 and 2 in seemingly every offensive stat that isn't SBs. Also this is a web discussion that is open to anyone's opinion. Its not all about you and your concerns brah... }:-)
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Re: Buck Showalter is an idiot

Postby CyboNinja » Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:55 am

bayside wrote:
CyboNinja wrote:I went and looked up 2 players who haven't missed a game and batted in the 3 hole all year. Davis has missed 1 game thus far.

Joey Votto 298 PAs 65 G
Dustin Pedroia 297 PAs 66 G
Chris Davis 267 PAs 64 G
(these stats are from before the start of play for today June 12)
I suppose I was a little off on my estimate. 70-80 PAs lost is a more accurate guess.


So lets see here so far Davis has hit a HR every 13.35 PAs. That equals 2.38 HRs thus far. For a team that currently sits 3 GB their division leader I would think those 2 HRs could've certainly helped. Showalter is an idiot.

what?
dude you cant compare guys from different teams lol.
you realize that not all teams have the same offensive prowess, so they dont get the same number of PA's throughout the season right?
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?p ... 0&sort=3,d
2013 season to date:
Boston - 2583 PA's
Cincinnati - 2556 PA's
Orioles - 2482 PA's

Theres a much easier (and more logical) way to to think about this.
Adam Jones, hitting 4th, in 65 games has 283 PA
Chris Davis, hitting 5th, in 64 games has 267 PA
subtract 4 PA for the extra game.
that gives us a difference of 12 PA's between the #5 and #4 slot for the Orioles.
over the season thats ~ 36 PA's.

Even if Davis keeps up the pace all year, that not even 1 win worth of PA's.
Showalter might be an idiot, but its definitely not becasue Davis is batting 5th.

Everything about this post just proves my point. PAs are valuable and even more so for stars having career seasons. Also there's a point to be made about how many more pitches would Davis get to hit if he had someone protecting him.

Bottom line is this. You got two studs in Adam Jones and Chris Davis. You gotta bat those two 3 and 4 and squeeze as many PAs out of those bats as you can over the course of a season. In a division thats prolly gonna come down to a couple of games an extra HR or two could mean all the difference. Ask Longo and the Rays about that.

I don't think Buck is a bad manager. I just feel that the lineup he runs out there everyday is that of a stubborn old idiot. Part of me wishes the Tigers could like trade Leyland for Buck but then we would have Miggy and Prince 4 and 5 and prolly Torii batting 3rd.. ughhh.
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Re: Buck Showalter is an idiot

Postby bayside » Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:00 am

ok you win
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Buck Showalter is an idiot

Postby lastingsgriller » Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:51 am

Maybe Chris Davis is comfortable hitting in the 5 spot and that comfort has contributed to his success..

I know a lot of sabermetric people don't like to believe in that type of voodoo, but my guess is neither buck showalter or Chris Davis are sabermetric people.

Also, I'm not sure if you recall, but Buck made it to the playoffs last year with the Orioles. Of all the managers in baseball, I'm not sure that is the one I'd be calling an idiot.
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Re: Buck Showalter is an idiot

Postby A Fleshner Fantasy » Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:03 am

CyboNinja wrote:
A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:We're talking about the Orioles and Chris Davis, not the Tigers and Miguel Cabrera. They're different teams and they have difference makeups. What's best for one can be very different than what's best for the other, so I'm really not concerned with how people would react if Leyland changed his lineup.
Well I figured they were a good comparison considering they're 1 and 2 in seemingly every offensive stat that isn't SBs. Also this is a web discussion that is open to anyone's opinion. Its not all about you and your concerns brah... }:-)

It's also not all about you and your somewhat irrational hatred of one of the best managers in baseball. Davis and Cabrera are surrounded by different players and in different situations. With Davis, you have a guy whose never sniffed .300 before hitting 40 points higher than that, and you're suggesting to move him to a slot that puts more pressure on him. Let the guy continue to play where he's comfortable and don't mess with success.
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Re: Buck Showalter is an idiot

Postby thedude » Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:22 am

You should be happy he is batting fifth. Fifth is a more important position than third. Third most often comes up with two outs, while fifth often comes up with men on base. I'm annoyed that Pedroia has been batting third all year. Third is actually less important than second, clean up, lead off and fifth.

This will explain the misunderstood optimization of line ups.
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/3 ... -lineup-by
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Re: Buck Showalter is an idiot

Postby thedude » Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:26 am

I should add:

Most important line up positions are second and clean up. Then it's lead off. Then fifth. Then third.
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Re: Buck Showalter is an idiot

Postby A Fleshner Fantasy » Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:35 am

thedude wrote:You should be happy he is batting fifth. Fifth is a more important position than third. Third most often comes up with two outs, while fifth often comes up with men on base. I'm annoyed that Pedroia has been batting third all year. Third is actually less important than second, clean up, lead off and fifth.

This will explain the misunderstood optimization of line ups.
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/3 ... -lineup-by


You're 100 percent right, but this was mentioned earlier in the thread, and OP decided to keep going on his witch hunt anyway.
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Re: Buck Showalter is an idiot

Postby jake_harv88 » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:23 pm

"Buck Showalter is an idiot"

Buck that...
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