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Buck Showalter is an idiot

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Buck Showalter is an idiot

Postby CyboNinja » Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:08 am

You got the MLB leader in HRs, OPS, SLG, and second in AVG, RBIs, etc.... WHY THE HELL DO YOU BAT HIM 5TH ALL DAMN YEAR? I would say hes more then proven himself. Part of me wishes I was a sabermetrician or whatever just so I could calculate how many wins the Os have given away from having their MVP candidate lose about a whole AB per game. How many HRs will Chris Davis not hit because he missed out on ~100 or so ABs? Showalter is an idiot.

/rant over
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Re: Buck Showalter is an idiot

Postby bayside » Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:40 am

im guessing your "wins given away calculation" would result in a very low number.

and how do you figure 100 AB's?
not like he would me moving from #9 to leadoff.
it would be #5 to #3/4 :-?
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Re: Buck Showalter is an idiot

Postby CyboNinja » Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:49 pm

bayside wrote:im guessing your "wins given away calculation" would result in a very low number.

Uhhh DUH! The league leader in WAR is usually around 7 or so wins so ya obviously we're talking about a low number. But the Os don't exactly have Ws to spare playing in the division they're in. It very well may come down to 1 or 2 games and if thats the case I put it on Showalter if they fall short.

bayside wrote:and how do you figure 100 AB's?
not like he would me moving from #9 to leadoff.
it would be #5 to #3/4 :-?
I went and looked up 2 players who haven't missed a game and batted in the 3 hole all year. Davis has missed 1 game thus far.

Joey Votto 298 PAs 65 G
Dustin Pedroia 297 PAs 66 G
Chris Davis 267 PAs 64 G
(these stats are from before the start of play for today June 12)
I suppose I was a little off on my estimate. 70-80 PAs lost is a more accurate guess.

So lets see here so far Davis has hit a HR every 13.35 PAs. That equals 2.38 HRs thus far. For a team that currently sits 3 GB their division leader I would think those 2 HRs could've certainly helped. Showalter is an idiot.
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Re: Buck Showalter is an idiot

Postby Skin Blues » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:28 pm

You think that moving from 5th to 3rd would give him 70-80 extra PAs? Really? The average for the AL would be about 32 plate appearances difference between 5th and 3rd.

Let's also consider that the order of importance based on leverage, 5th is ahead of 3rd. The #3 batter comes up with 2 out and no runners on far more often than any other lineup spot, therefore it has only the 5th-highest leverage behind 1/4/2/5 spots. According to "The Book" the hitters should be ordered from best to worst in these lineup spots: 1, 4, 2, 5, 3, 6, 7, 8, 9. Don't tell this to Dusty Baker though. In 20% of this season's games, his #2 hitter has had a worse career OBP than their pitcher batting in the 9 spot (Mike Leake).
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Re: Buck Showalter is an idiot

Postby A Fleshner Fantasy » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:55 pm

Chris Davis does so much for Adam Jones by hitting behind him. Jones is a player that swings at pitches all the time, and without Davis behind him, he's not going to get pitches to hit. Unfortunately, rather than taking walks, he would just swing at bad pitches. The potential lack of Davis' extra hits is made up for by Jones. On top of that, he's hitting behind many players who get on base consistently, so he still gets to hit with tons of players on base.

Buck is the reason we got to the playoffs last year, and he is responsible for the turnaround of this team. He is an absolutely fantastic manager. Don't sell him short.
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Re: Buck Showalter is an idiot

Postby CyboNinja » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:04 am

Skin Blues wrote:You think that moving from 5th to 3rd would give him 70-80 extra PAs? Really? The average for the AL would be about 32 plate appearances difference between 5th and 3rd.
Well that certainly isn't the pace for the Os this season. The numbers don't lie. Just for fun here's Nick Markakis (been number 3 hitter for the Os all year) 284 PAs and 63 G. Thats almost 20 more PAs in 1 less game played. Extrapolate that out and 70-80 seems like a safe guess to me. Perhaps a little on the high side but we will see.

Skin Blues wrote:Don't tell this to Dusty Baker though. In 20% of this season's games, his #2 hitter has had a worse career OBP than their pitcher batting in the 9 spot (Mike Leake).
He's an idiot too don't even get me started on him! :-t
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Re: Buck Showalter is an idiot

Postby CyboNinja » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:09 am

A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:Chris Davis does so much for Adam Jones by hitting behind him. Jones is a player that swings at pitches all the time, and without Davis behind him, he's not going to get pitches to hit. Unfortunately, rather than taking walks, he would just swing at bad pitches. The potential lack of Davis' extra hits is made up for by Jones. On top of that, he's hitting behind many players who get on base consistently, so he still gets to hit with tons of players on base.

Buck is the reason we got to the playoffs last year, and he is responsible for the turnaround of this team. He is an absolutely fantastic manager. Don't sell him short.

Adam Jones seems to be putting up similar numbers this year as he did last year with Weiters protecting him for most of the season.

The Os are my adopted team but I gotta say, if Miggy was batting 5th all year this city would be calling for Leyland's head.
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Re: Buck Showalter is an idiot

Postby mac-unit » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:21 am

A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:Chris Davis does so much for Adam Jones by hitting behind him. Jones is a player that swings at pitches all the time, and without Davis behind him, he's not going to get pitches to hit. Unfortunately, rather than taking walks, he would just swing at bad pitches. The potential lack of Davis' extra hits is made up for by Jones. On top of that, he's hitting behind many players who get on base consistently, so he still gets to hit with tons of players on base.

Buck is the reason we got to the playoffs last year, and he is responsible for the turnaround of this team. He is an absolutely fantastic manager. Don't sell him short.



If Jones is going to swing at bad pitches if Davis isn't behind him, he'll swing at bad pitches with Davis in front of him.
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Re: Buck Showalter is an idiot

Postby A Fleshner Fantasy » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:04 am

mac-unit wrote:
A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:Chris Davis does so much for Adam Jones by hitting behind him. Jones is a player that swings at pitches all the time, and without Davis behind him, he's not going to get pitches to hit. Unfortunately, rather than taking walks, he would just swing at bad pitches. The potential lack of Davis' extra hits is made up for by Jones. On top of that, he's hitting behind many players who get on base consistently, so he still gets to hit with tons of players on base.

Buck is the reason we got to the playoffs last year, and he is responsible for the turnaround of this team. He is an absolutely fantastic manager. Don't sell him short.



If Jones is going to swing at bad pitches if Davis isn't behind him, he'll swing at bad pitches with Davis in front of him.


I agree. My point is that with Davis behind him, he sees a much higher percentage of good pitches.
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Re: Buck Showalter is an idiot

Postby A Fleshner Fantasy » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:05 am

CyboNinja wrote:
A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:Chris Davis does so much for Adam Jones by hitting behind him. Jones is a player that swings at pitches all the time, and without Davis behind him, he's not going to get pitches to hit. Unfortunately, rather than taking walks, he would just swing at bad pitches. The potential lack of Davis' extra hits is made up for by Jones. On top of that, he's hitting behind many players who get on base consistently, so he still gets to hit with tons of players on base.

Buck is the reason we got to the playoffs last year, and he is responsible for the turnaround of this team. He is an absolutely fantastic manager. Don't sell him short.

Adam Jones seems to be putting up similar numbers this year as he did last year with Weiters protecting him for most of the season.

The Os are my adopted team but I gotta say, if Miggy was batting 5th all year this city would be calling for Leyland's head.


We're talking about the Orioles and Chris Davis, not the Tigers and Miguel Cabrera. They're different teams and they have difference makeups. What's best for one can be very different than what's best for the other, so I'm really not concerned with how people would react if Leyland changed his lineup.
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